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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 12:23 pm    Post subject: Can anyone figure it out? Reply with quote

Seriously, how do Predators see their view screens in their helmets?

Predators see in the Infrared Spectrum, as established in the movies. No biggie there. This means they see various shades of red only. They have created optic systems for their helmets that allow them to shift through the variuos wavelengths of light as well as Thermal.

My question is this, just how can a Predator distinguish between them. For example, a Predator is using his Thermal during a hunt. The image is displayed in mostly soft, warm colors and various shades of blue, etc. If a predator sees, naturally, in Infrared, he can't see the various colors on his display. In fact the display would be universaly blank.

How do they do it?

Hind Sight Edit: Oops, wrong spot for this post. Oh well... Embarassed
Edit by bernieh: moved
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if they naturally see in infared then surely the infared vision made would just be a clear screen for them to look through?
edit: actually now ive READ you post i realise that that its still relatively simple but THAT(look up) is a complete load of bullshit. its just like asking, how come we can see in infared on an infared camera when our natural vision isnt infared? or a more probable theory, maybe the preds dont see the blue? they just see the spots of red and yellow and see everything else as greyish black? I'm going to stop thinking before I confuse myself...

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Atzel



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Infra-red doesn't mean "various shades of red". Acctually, the term "infra-red" doesn't have anything to do with the colour red.
Infra means "inferior to, below, or beneath", in other words infra-red means "below red". Infra-red is the part of the light spectrum between visible red light (about 750 nm) and microwaves (1 mm). Infra-red radiation is more commonly known as "heat" Laughing
Most likely the helmet does not have a display of any type that would make any sense to us, but rather some manner of micro-pored surface which is heated and cooled off to give them a (to them) visible representation of the various vision modes available. Since we can see in the movie that a pred with his helmet off had worse vision than one with it on, it is logical to assume that they have bad eye sight and that the helmet also helps out by amplifinging infra-red input.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the fuck? We already pounded this topic into the ground! Now all you people stop spreading misinformation. Evil or Very Mad
Predators do not naturally see in the infrared range. They see in some other range which is different from our "visible spectrum," which is why they see so poorly on earth, without the aid of equipment.
Any object with a nonzero temperature (in Kelvin)-that is to say, any object-will emit thermal radiation. The hotter an object is, the greater the frequency (or, equivalently, the shorter the wavelength) of the radiation it can emit. Human bodies emit radiation in the infrared range, while the sun can emit radiation with a much higher frequency (visible range, and higher). If one had a device which was sensitive to infrared radiaton, one could view human without the aid of ambient light. Predators utilize such technology.
The fact that the POV scenes depict the maskless pred seeing "red" tells us absolutely nothing about the range of radiation to which its eyes are sensitive (beyond the fact that is is not the same as ours), as color is a biological and somewhat subjective phenomenon.
Also, "heat" is a generic term which denotes the energy of transfer between two objects which are not in thermal equilibrium.

I am sorry if that was somewhat less than cohesive, and I apologize for any typos, but I tired of addressing the same issue so many times. Sad
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atzel wrote:
Infra-red doesn't mean "various shades of red". Acctually, the term "infra-red" doesn't have anything to do with the colour red.
Infra means "inferior to, below, or beneath", in other words infra-red means "below red". Infra-red is the part of the light spectrum between visible red light (about 750 nm) and microwaves (1 mm). Infra-red radiation is more commonly known as "heat" Laughing
Most likely the helmet does not have a display of any type that would make any sense to us, but rather some manner of micro-pored surface which is heated and cooled off to give them a (to them) visible representation of the various vision modes available. Since we can see in the movie that a pred with his helmet off had worse vision than one with it on, it is logical to assume that they have bad eye sight and that the helmet also helps out by amplifinging infra-red input.


Thanks man, that made a lot of sense for the most part.
"...but rather some manner of micro-pored surface which is heated and cooled off to give them a (to them) visible representation of the various vision modes available."-This will work for me 100% Very Happy
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster...Fuckin' Troll. Whats your problem? If this topic has been run into the ground, you coulda just provided a link and simply say, "Here man, this link will answer all your questions", instead of going on a pointless rant and rave that explained sweet fuck all. If your tired of answering this question when a new member asks, then DON'T. That simple.Evil or Very Mad

Go see a doctor about that Corncob up your ass, its putting you in a bad mood.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange, Blaster's usually the calm one that strikes from the shadows only when necessary, and fire wont work on him, he's got Armor Of Sylvanessaline (or whatever that bg2 elf city is) which makes him immune to all weapons +2 and under.
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Simon_Says



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's Suldanesselar.

Zombie... simmer down.
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AAATripper



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for correcting me, i used to know that game like the back of my own hand.
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Zombie



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"well, when you notice something like that.. a wizard did it"
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic might have been done before, but i haven't seen it. I found the replies in this topic to be very informative.
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://alienlovespredator.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=215&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
You can start there, Papa. Ironically, this is a post to which you had already responded before I engaged in my quasi-diatribe. I suppose I just thought that maybe you had read it already. Btw, my vexation was only about half sincere, the rest is for show. Smile

Papazombie wrote:
"...but rather some manner of micro-pored surface which is heated and cooled off to give them a (to them) visible representation of the various vision modes available."

Well, you could believe this, but it wouldn't necessarily be true. Wink An object doesn't need a temperature near the that of the human body to emit infrared light any more than an object needs a temperature near that of the sun to emit visible light. That is a separate issue of black-body radiation. Think about an LCD.
Anyway, the above issure is rendered largely moot due to the fact that it has been established that preds do not see in infrared.
Ok, me stop ramble now.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok that topic was called Raceism in AVP...not "what ever this topic is about" anyway even if he did post in the link that you gave. Ever stop to think that maybe..just maybe, it needed it's own topic to expand on it so we don't go off topic on the other thread?
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its all good folks, I just hate Trolls, half-assed or not. I don't mind being flammed but I hate being Trolled.

Moving right along...there seems to be some confusion towards Infrared. Its not heat energy, thats Thermal, our bodies give off Thermal Energy and not Infrared Light. Infrared on the other hand is part of the spectrum of White Light, also known as the Visable Spectrum. It goes like this: Infrared, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Violet and Ultraviolet. We, as Humans, cannot naturally see anything above Red nor anything below Violet. Side note: Honey Bees see in the Ultraviolet spectrum.

And Blaster, your post in the link, I had read it and it didn't answer the question I had posted....and not so ironicly the post I made in that thread was in regards to the thread's question...

Anyway, Blaster, we seem to have had a bad start. Hope we can fix it as I try to avoid stepping on toes if I can. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Takes deep breath and counts to ten*
*Puts physics degree away (figuratively)"
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grrrr...I can't resist a rebuttal, but I will try to at least be civil about it.
Thermal energy is simply the kinetic energy of the particles which compose a body. Humans do emit infrared radiation. Whether we call it "light" or not is somewhat arbitrary.
No, I did not really address your questions. Instead, I attacked the erroneous assumptions upon which your questions were predicated, thereby rendering them moot. My manner was somewhat vindictive; for that, I apologize. But I still feel the need to promulgate correct information whenever possible, at least concerning a subject over which I labored for four years.
So, where we go from here is a mystery to me. We shall see...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papazombie wrote:
Infrared on the other hand is part of the spectrum of White Light, also known as the Visable Spectrum. It goes like this: Infrared, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Violet and Ultraviolet. We, as Humans, cannot naturally see anything above Red nor anything below Violet.


Incorrect. White light is simply the combination of all visible colors when light reflects off a surface without absorbtion of certain wavelengths. White light is not the term you are looking for.

The electromagnetic spectrum is what you are reffering to. Your order is also incomplete. Radio-waves, microwaves, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, x-ray, and gamma raditation are the terms for all parts of the em spectrum (ordered from longest wavelength to shortest.)
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a good place to start.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
This is a good place to start.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/science/know_l1/emspectrum.html


Thank you for that link, man. Part of the Spectrum like I said. The chart shows Infrared Light and Ultraviolet Light right where I said they would be. It's not heat.

Side note: Its Human Arrogance that claims that Infrared and Ultraviolet are not part of the Visable Spectrum. They are visable, just not to us. Other wise Honey Bees, at the risk of over useing an example, would not be able to see.

And no, I was not refering to the EM Spectrum, I would have said that. But I do understand that the Visable Spectrum is part of the EM Spectrum.
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thermal energy is the by-product of checimal reactions within the body, at least in regards to the body. In terms of Kinetic energy, I can only think of Thermal being the by-product of resistance, friction. Won't happen in a void.

'Course after this post I'm gonna look it up and provide links, regardless if I'm correct or not. I love debates like this. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papazombie wrote:
Side note: Its Human Arrogance that claims that Infrared and Ultraviolet are not part of the Visable Spectrum. They are visable, just not to us. Other wise Honey Bees, at the risk of over useing an example, would not be able to see.


What. The. Fuck.

Visible spectrum is the term for the wavelengths of the em spectrum visible to us. Jesus, ultraviolet light is invisible because it's in the visible spectrum?

So what bees see ultraviolet. Humans can't. That makes UV invisible and not part of the visible spectrum.

Should radio waves be part of the visible spectrum? Why not? Some extra-terrestrial bee is probably able to see radio waves somewhere.
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course Ultraviolet is visable, Bees would not be able to see otherwise.
And Radio Waves are not light. Rolling Eyes

Whats your fuckin problem? All I said was that our defination of the visable spectrum is a little biased. Get bent. Evil or Very Mad

Th point I was trying to illustrate is that if something can naturaly see in a particular wave length, then by defination it is visable, regardless if we, as Humans, see it or not. How can you have a problem with this? Seriously...


*Tosses away Flaming Sword +1 and begins looking for Fire Ball Scroll.*
...goddamn Trolls...
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Last edited by Papazombie on Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moving right along...

I was so wrong about the definition of Thermal Energy, sigh.

THERMAL ENERGY:
The total internal kinetic and potential energy of an object due to the random motion of its atoms and molecules. An object that feels hot has more thermal energy inside it than it does after it has cooled down. Although technically incorrect, the word "heat" is often used to mean thermal energy. See Heat.
www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Unitall/definitions.htm

VISABLE SPECTRUM (Takes into account human vision only.)
visible spectrum: The region of the electromagnetic spectrum that can be perceived by human vision, approximately the wavelength range of 0.4 m to 0.7 m.
http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_visible_spectrum.html

EM SPECTRUM
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Electromagnetic_radiation

Please take into account that I am at work and only had time for a very quick read of these. If they show anything contrary to my own statements please point them out. I hate being wrong but I will admit to it if you can convince me.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh* This person is hopeless.

Read a fucking physics book.
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Papazombie



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, because we all know a Physics book will most certainly change my mind on a particular defination thats a little biased.

Too many people who are unable to think outside the box. You belong in Congress...
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