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Khushi



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
Khushi wrote:

^^ right there.

i have to agree with anti.. you don't always have to be in a situation to know how you would react. especially if you know the person you are.

just maybe SOME people might react differently when the actual situation is brought up.. but you mentioned "no one". i disagree.


You caught me. I worded it wrong.

And you're telling me you're so sure of who you are that if it came dwon to it, you would save your spouse instead of your kid? Even though you haven't even met your spouse yet or had a child? These unknowns don't affect your decision at all?

You don't think you'll change after getting married and having a kid?

I don't think it's some. I think it's most. I'll bet you a 50 dollar steak at Spark's that if you took a poll of all the parents in this forum over whether they'd save their spouse or their child, 90% or more would say their kid. Maybe it's cause I'm Korean, and the family values on reverence of children is high, and my experience with parents I've known (A few of whom I've eaten meals at the school cafeteria with before they went around popping out kids) for years, but a parent would risk anything if the life of his/her child was in danger.

And like I said, if you aren't willing to do that as a parent, you shouldn't be raising a kid.

You're trying to make this situation sound like it's so simple. "I know who I am so I know how I'd react." This isn't exactly a restaurant menu. This is a life or death situation between a spouse and a child. Saying "I won't like sushi cause I don't like seafood" just isn't in the same ballpark as saying "I know I'll save the love of my life whom I've never met instead of the child I've helped create with him/her."


i wasn't using myself as an example when i said people might know their definite answer. i'm only 20.. i haven't even given marriage a thought yet. but i still stand by my answer, that YES, there may be people who know their definite answer now (and no, not all of those people said they'd save the spouse).
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
In a word? Yes. Of course you have more weight over the matter. You have a wife and kid.

If the debate was something like, "What is it like to grow up Asian-American?", then obviously I'd be highly qualified to answer it. Because...

1. I'm American.
2. I'm Asian.

I'd definately have the appropriate grounds to argue it as opposed to, say, a white guy. What he says would ultimately mean nothing because he has no experience in knowing what it's like.


Survey says...X
We are not asking that individuals relate their subjective experiences regarding something which they have already undergone; we are asking them to address an ethical question, relating how they believe they will act if ever put to such a test.

Your analogy would only make sense if the original question were: "What is it like to be a parent and to have to choose between saving one's spouse or one's child on a sinking ship?" And in such a circumstance, we could still speculate.

Logic: it's what's for dinner.
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Aramor



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev, you're taking this way too seriously...
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Khushi



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aramor the First wrote:
Sev, you're taking this way too seriously...


my thoughts exactly.
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Pieh



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He makes big posts. :|
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Satan Crime Wash



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aramor the First wrote:
Sev, you're taking this way too seriously...


Nice going Aramor; now he's going to post a 1000 word reply explaining why he doesn't take things seriously and that everyone but him is wrong. Not that I'm going to read it, but I might get tendonitis from mousewheeling past it.
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Simon_Says



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In responce to this rather unconvincing essay...


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Pieh



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_Says wrote:
In respone to this rather unconvincing essay...

[img]omglolwtf[/img]


this is FUN!
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Sev



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
Sev wrote:
In a word? Yes. Of course you have more weight over the matter. You have a wife and kid.

If the debate was something like, "What is it like to grow up Asian-American?", then obviously I'd be highly qualified to answer it. Because...

1. I'm American.
2. I'm Asian.

I'd definately have the appropriate grounds to argue it as opposed to, say, a white guy. What he says would ultimately mean nothing because he has no experience in knowing what it's like.


Survey says...X
We are not asking that individuals relate their subjective experiences regarding something which they have already undergone; we are asking them to address an ethical question, relating how they believe they will act if ever put to such a test.

Your analogy would only make sense if the original question were: "What is it like to be a parent and to have to choose between saving one's spouse or one's child on a sinking ship?" And in such a circumstance, we could still speculate.

Logic: it's what's for dinner.


That's because LOGICALLY you read the analogy wrong.

I'm saying if someone already has a wife and child their opinion matters more than someone else who doesn't. I never said relating personal experiences was essential to answering the question, and I didn't say that this wasn't a hypothetical ethical question.

Reading: It's fundamental.

And I'm not taking this seriously. I just take the time out to answer, people see big posts and go, "Wow he takes this too seriously."

You would think if someone joins a forum they'd like to read what other people have to say. If I'm taking this "oh noez so!" seriously and everyone else is so blasÚ about it why are they responding to me?
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Khushi



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no offense, but i don't think you have a say in who's opinion generally matters more or less.

i made this thread in curiosity to see what sort of answers i get. so for me, EVERYONE'S opinion matters equally, thank you.
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
That's because LOGICALLY you read the analogy wrong.

No, you chose the analogy poorly.

Sev wrote:
I never said relating personal experiences was essential to answering the question

You didn't have to; it was implied by your poorly constructed analogy.

Sev wrote:
I didn't say that this wasn't a hypothetical ethical question

No, but you are arguing against the validity and worth of such an exercise.

And by all means, feel free to make long posts.
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amyltrer



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:

And by all means, feel free to make long posts.


Yep, he's a lucky man. My poor English doesn't allow me to post so loong coments. Sad
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Aramor



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
And I'm not taking this seriously. I just take the time out to answer, people see big posts and go, "Wow he takes this too seriously."


I'm not saying your taking this too seriously because you reply with big posts. I love big posts, makes me feel important when I'm reading it... but I'm saying you're probably taking it way too seriously by reading the contents of your big posts.
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Sev



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
[quote="Blaster"]
Sev wrote:
That's because LOGICALLY you read the analogy wrong.

No, you chose the analogy poorly.


No, you read it wrong.

So you can either prove it or we can play the "I'm right you're wrong" post game all year.

Quote:
Sev wrote:
I never said relating personal experiences was essential to answering the question

You didn't have to; it was implied by your poorly constructed analogy.


No, you read it from an already biased point of view. I didn't say anything to suggest it, and you aren't doing anything to prove I did, because you're saying, "I am right and I am not showing you an example of why. I will simply say I'm right because you IMPLIED, because I am a mind reader."

Quote:
Sev wrote:
I didn't say that this wasn't a hypothetical ethical question

No, but you are arguing against the validity and worth of such an exercise.

And by all means, feel free to make long posts.


Where? Show me. I'm arguing that someone who has a wife and a kid has the only true weight of opinion in this hypothetical question as opposed to someone who doesn't. That's been my whole point the entire post, and people have thrown me into tangets of saying, "I know who I am so I know what my choice will be", and apprently because I choose to answer myself, I'm long-winded and take things seriously.

If you want to keep up with the "I am right because I know how to read your posts and you don't know how to read your own posts" game without offering any sort of substantial repartÚ, by all means, go ahead.

Maybe you'll get an internship with Donald Rumsfeld.
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Anti



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
we can play the "I'm right you're wrong" post game all year.


As opposed to...? Smile
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Sev



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing something alot more meaningful and useful, like drawing a perfect square.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfection is a paradox, thus drawing the perfect square cannot be done and would be a greater waste of time.
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Aramor



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telveryon wrote:
Perfection is a paradox


Then you should reverse the polarity... that helps against every problem according to Geordi... Razz
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, here we go:
First, let's deconstruct your analogy. You use the Asian-American example to show that only one who has "walked in those particular shoes" is fit to address such an issue. (If you chose it for another reason, please feel free to correct me. So far, you have not).

This analogy is poorly chosen. By the very nature of a hypothetical question, the respondent does not require any "life experience" in order to answer the question. If we were to follow such silly contraints, then this question could only be asked of those parents who have actually been in this situation (which, I imagine, is a very small percentage of the population). Anyone else's opinions on the matter would be worthless.
The question is merely an device used for determining whether one values the life of a spouse or a child more. If it makes you feel any better, this is a situation that could theoretically affect most of us, as we all have the potential to be spouses or parents.

Now for the second point:
Blaster wrote:
No, but you are arguing against the validity and worth of such an exercise.


Sev wrote:
Where? Show me. I'm arguing that someone who has a wife and a kid has the only true weight of opinion in this hypothetical question as opposed to someone who doesn't.


Thank for making my point for me. But, if we must be anal about this, then let's analyze. I posit that you portray this question as worthless by virtue of the fact that our opinions hold no weight as [some of us] have no spouses or children. You deny this, then go on to claim that only the opinion of one with a spouse and a child has a worthy opinion. Need I go on?
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Aramor



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
as we all have the potential to be spouses or parents.


I wouldn't say that too loud Razz
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Khushi



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can we just stick to the original question?
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Anti



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We may be beyond that...
You've created a monster, Khushi!
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Pieh



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pretty much everyone stated their opinion on the question already. so..:\
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Khushi



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antidistinctlyminty wrote:
We may be beyond that...
You've created a monster, Khushi!


i think so too. -_-
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol, I have not.

I'll save my kid. I'm sure my spouse would want me to save the kid. And I don't think my spouse (or I, for the matter) could bear knowing that the kid had not been saved.

I just pray I need not make such a decision. Hm.
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