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Anti



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
In fact, noone in this thread should be able to talk about this. If you have a spouse and a kid, then your opinion has weight. But since none of us (I'm assuming none of us cause alot of us here are pretty young) do, our opinion means crap


Soooo... I need to own an elephant to want to stop ivory poaching in Kenya?
I have to possess a Jewish guy to have an opinion on Holocaust Denial?
I have to be caught in a hurricane and flood, or earthquake and tsunami, or terrorist attack, to donate money, time, effort and care?

I don't have to eat shit to know I'm really not going to like the taste.

Dude, my opinion matters, regardless of personal investment, ownership or otherwise.
I have a feeling you might be right about your opinion, though.


Last edited by Anti on Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sal



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

good line of thinking, Anti.
i think i agree with you.

um...
Antidistinctlyminty wrote:
I don't have to eat shit to know I'm really not going to like the taste.


yep. i most positively agree with you.
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Sev



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antidistinctlyminty wrote:
Sev wrote:
In fact, noone in this thread should be able to talk about this. If you have a spouse and a kid, then your opinion has weight. But since none of us (I'm assuming none of us cause alot of us here are pretty young) do, our opinion means crap


Soooo... I need to own an elephant to want to stop ivory poaching in Kenya?
I have to possess a Jewish guy to have an opinion on Holocaust Denial?
I have to be caught in a hurricane and flood, or earthquake and tsunami, or terrorist attack, to donate money, time, effort and care?


I can't believe someone agreed with you that this line of reasoning makes sense.

What do all these things have to do with saving either your spouse or your child? Nothing.

Because obviously saving your spouse or your child in a life or death situation is a subject of debate. It doesn't take a Dhalai Lama or a Pope to tell you the Holocaust was wrong and donating money to victims of natural disasters is the morally right thing to do.

So yes, if you don't have a spouse and a kid, your opinion on this matters shit. Along the lines of someone saying, "Even though I've never eaten a hamburger or a hot dog before, I'm sure I would go for the _______ because I know people who've eaten them before."

Quote:
I don't have to eat shit to know I'm really not going to like the taste.


Okay. What does eating shit have to do with saving a child or a wife?

Right. Nothing.

By the way, you know that shit tastes terrible because of the SMELL. Your senses of taste and smell are linked.

Quote:
Dude, my opinion matters, regardless of personal investment, ownership or otherwise.
I have a feeling you might be right about your opinion, though.


No, it doesn't.

And yes, mine is probably right, but it still has no weight cause I have no kid of my own. But I really do think any parent not willing to sacrifice themselves and each other for their child have no place becoming parents.
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Khushi



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

its called a HYPOTHETICAL question.

if you don't think anyone should be talking about this, do yourself a favor and click out of here. Rolling Eyes no need to start a whole new debate over it.
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Sev



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khushi wrote:
its called a HYPOTHETICAL question.

if you don't think anyone should be talking about this, do yourself a favor and click out of here. Rolling Eyes no need to start a whole new debate over it.


Can you go back to any of my posts and show me where I said people shouldn't be talking about this? If you can, I'll shut my mouth.

All I did was say that relating this hypothetical question to analogies like, "Well I don't have to be a Jew to know the Holocaust really happened" or "I don't have to be in a hurricane to know donating money to hurricane victims is right" is dumb. Very dumb. If I came off as hostile, I didn't mean to be Anti. I get unconciously mean when I start beasting.

Why don't you call me out on that instead of something I never did?

I'm saying ultimately, what anyone says in this thread regarding who they would save amounts to nothing, because people are getting into a deep debate about the life of a spouse being DEFINATELY more valuable than the life of a child, or vice versa.. But you're talking about this shit like you actually have a spouse or child of your own.

Which none of us do.

So if you pick a choice, stand by it and argue it, hey your opinion. More power to you. But don't talk like you actually have authority on the amtter.
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Aramor



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
It doesn't take a Dhalai Lama or a Pope to tell you the Holocaust was wrong


That depends on your point of view.

Now, I'm not saying that I say the Holocaust was a good thing to happen and that I want it to happen again (should look funny on a X-Mas wish list though... Razz) but I think that some of us here can imagine what it's like to have to choose between your child and your spouse...

I can, and I can tell you right now I can't decide something like that right now, because I wouldn't want either of them to die.
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Khushi



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In fact, noone in this thread should be able to talk about this.


^^ right there.

i have to agree with anti.. you don't always have to be in a situation to know how you would react. especially if you know the person you are.

just maybe SOME people might react differently when the actual situation is brought up.. but you mentioned "no one". i disagree.

Quote:
But you're talking about this shit like you actually have a spouse or child of your own.

Which none of us do.


how would you be so sure of this?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev, re: Anti's points, please take the time to acquaint yourself with the concept of analogy.
And yes, there are forum members here who have spouses and children, but that is really beside the point as they are still very unlikely to find themselves in such a predicament. This is a hypothetical question designed to induce introspection and ethical debate. So jus' chill, yo.
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Anti



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
If I came off as hostile, I didn't mean to be Anti. I get unconciously mean when I start beasting.


Sev, no offence taken, you didn't come across as mean (in your original post), just a little close-minded.
I just thought I'd try and give you a little perspective, because I genuinely thought you were getting all caught up in the whole "no-one can have an opinion unless they've experienced something" concept.

I see now that I was silly for thinking you were that dumb.

By the way, I do have a spouse, and I have been a child (a loooong time ago, but I remember the sort of kid I was), so, do you think my opinion on this hypothetical debate is now worth more than someone who hasn't?
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ONIKAGE



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

for me its all about evolution/conservation of the species and given the fact that an adult being is more functional than a newborn i'd save my partner,because i can still make kids to her which its much more reasonable strictly in dna survivals terms;
also growing up a child without his/her mother its not practical but wicked,for he will have to live on with this kind of trauma.
this is also a reason for i find women who decide better to save their babies lives than their owns when a difficult pregnancy occurs insane.
i see such behavior as something more likely to a suicide than a sacrifice for somebody else sake,also its completely careless of the feelings of the partner.
in fact you cant compare the love you feel for your partner whom you spent a lifetime with to the love you might feel for a yet to born thing,its non-sensical to me.

*takes shelter and prepares to get n00ked. lmao

PEACE
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Telveryon



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disaggree a little bit with you. The reason behind the drive for adults to sacrifice thir live to make sure their offsprings survive is evolution/conservation, as you put it. An individual has two duties:
1. To survive
2 . To propagate the species
The second reason implies that it's your duty to pass on you genes, to make sure that any improvements you may bring to the species don't die off with you. Most animals sacrifice their lives to make sure their children survive. An example if you may: there is a species of squid where the female goes for six months without eating to guard her eggs. After the eggs hatch, she dies of malnutrition. Thus she made the ultimate sacrifice to make sure her offsprings survie to pass on her genes.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somebody should tell squids that you can order food... Razz
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Telveryon



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but it takes sometime to get it in the middle of the ocean...
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ONIKAGE



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

this brings up an interesting debate,but in fact it simply reflect how r different survival strategies among the species,as some simply rely on big numbers whereas others tend to be more protective towards their new borns [and are actually totally acreless of their partners].
like fishes dont even realize about their offsprings,let alone their partners but for us is different,as we are conscious of it,its normal for us to want to protect our childrens and other-halfs,not just in DNA terms,but also because we love them as persons.
in the end,its totally subjective for us to make a choice between a partner or a child in such extreme situations as it depends on our personal values and feelings.
i just hope i will never experience this tho,or tht i'd least i would be given the chance to save their lives giving mine in exchange as i guess would be easier for anybody to do.

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Aramor



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telveryon wrote:
Yeah, but it takes sometime to get it in the middle of the ocean...


Well, if it's not there in 30 minutes, it's free, right? I mean, squids don't have money, so coincidentally, it's also comes in very handy Wink

OINKAGE wrote:
or tht i'd least i would be given the chance to save their lives giving mine in exchange as i guess would be easier for anybody to do.


Still, they'd have to live with the fact that you had to die for them to live on...
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amyltrer



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Telveryon wrote:
I have to disaggree a little bit with you. The reason behind the drive for adults to sacrifice thir live to make sure their offsprings survive is evolution/conservation, as you put it. An individual has two duties:
1. To survive
2 . To propagate the species
The second reason implies that it's your duty to pass on you genes, to make sure that any improvements you may bring to the species don't die off with you. Most animals sacrifice their lives to make sure their children survive. An example if you may: there is a species of squid where the female goes for six months without eating to guard her eggs. After the eggs hatch, she dies of malnutrition. Thus she made the ultimate sacrifice to make sure her offsprings survie to pass on her genes.



Aww, so now you have to starve for a damn offspring, so when she/he'll grow up can abandon you in an asylum.
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Anti



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aramor the First wrote:
OINKAGE


Dude, I just wet myself 'cos I'm all like "See, it does look like Oinkage" before it e v e n t u a l l y dawned on me that you'd changed it.

I'm dumber than I realised Embarassed
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Aramor



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA! My ewil scheme haz vorked!!! Und was the fuck is vrong vith my zpeech impetativethingamajiggywhatchamacallit?!?
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Satan Crime Wash



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps we could call him 'Oink' for short.
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Sev



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antidistinctlyminty wrote:
Sev wrote:
If I came off as hostile, I didn't mean to be Anti. I get unconciously mean when I start beasting.


Sev, no offence taken, you didn't come across as mean (in your original post), just a little close-minded.
I just thought I'd try and give you a little perspective, because I genuinely thought you were getting all caught up in the whole "no-one can have an opinion unless they've experienced something" concept.

I see now that I was silly for thinking you were that dumb.

By the way, I do have a spouse, and I have been a child (a loooong time ago, but I remember the sort of kid I was), so, do you think my opinion on this hypothetical debate is now worth more than someone who hasn't?


In a word? Yes. Of course you have more weight over the matter. You have a wife and kid.

If the debate was something like, "What is it like to grow up Asian-American?", then obviously I'd be highly qualified to answer it. Because...

1. I'm American.
2. I'm Asian.

I'd definately have the appropriate grounds to argue it as opposed to, say, a white guy. What he says would ultimately mean nothing because he has no experience in knowing what it's like.


Khushi wrote:

^^ right there.

i have to agree with anti.. you don't always have to be in a situation to know how you would react. especially if you know the person you are.

just maybe SOME people might react differently when the actual situation is brought up.. but you mentioned "no one". i disagree.


You caught me. I worded it wrong.

And you're telling me you're so sure of who you are that if it came dwon to it, you would save your spouse instead of your kid? Even though you haven't even met your spouse yet or had a child? These unknowns don't affect your decision at all?

You don't think you'll change after getting married and having a kid?

I don't think it's some. I think it's most. I'll bet you a 50 dollar steak at Spark's that if you took a poll of all the parents in this forum over whether they'd save their spouse or their child, 90% or more would say their kid. Maybe it's cause I'm Korean, and the family values on reverence of children is high, and my experience with parents I've known (A few of whom I've eaten meals at the school cafeteria with before they went around popping out kids) for years, but a parent would risk anything if the life of his/her child was in danger.

And like I said, if you aren't willing to do that as a parent, you shouldn't be raising a kid.

You're trying to make this situation sound like it's so simple. "I know who I am so I know how I'd react." This isn't exactly a restaurant menu. This is a life or death situation between a spouse and a child. Saying "I won't like sushi cause I don't like seafood" just isn't in the same ballpark as saying "I know I'll save the love of my life whom I've never met instead of the child I've helped create with him/her."
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's because I'm not entirely thinking straight, but this seemed pertinent:
Acts and their consequences are the things by which our fellows judge us. Anything else, and all that you get is a cheap feeling of moral superiority by thinking how you would have done something nicer if it had been you. So as for the rest, leave it to heaven. I'm not qualified.
All the world's cookies to whoever can fully identify this.

Sev wrote:
I'll bet you a 50 dollar steak at Spark's that if you took a poll of all the parents in this forum over whether they'd save their spouse or their child, 90% or more would say their kid. Maybe it's cause I'm Korean, and the family values on reverence of children is high, and my experience with parents I've known (A few of whom I've eaten meals at the school cafeteria with before they went around popping out kids) for years, but a parent would risk anything if the life of his/her child was in danger.

I tend to think that I would save my own children, because I learned a lot of my behavior (good, bad, or otherwise) from my parents (am half Korean) and know that that's how they would react. I would be devastated if I lost my hypothetical spouse, but maybe I wouldn't be young enough to spawn again. I'd probably be more crushed if I'd lost my kid. I mean, come on. Think of his/her market value! *runs away*
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Sev



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ipsa wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm not entirely thinking straight, but this seemed pertinent:
Acts and their consequences are the things by which our fellows judge us. Anything else, and all that you get is a cheap feeling of moral superiority by thinking how you would have done something nicer if it had been you. So as for the rest, leave it to heaven. I'm not qualified.
All the world's cookies to whoever can fully identify this.


Zelanzy fan? Come over to the George RR Martin camp! He's a much better writer! And quickly, before he starts using cheesy lets-bring-back-dead-guys plot devices! STOP CORRESPONDING WITH ROBERT JORDAN DAMNIT!!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sev wrote:
Zelanzy fan? Come over to the George RR Martin camp! He's a much better writer!

Yes! But you have to name the book! Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine. Hand of Oberon.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Dance, hands over cookies. But not at the same time mind you.*
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