Guns and knives

[cfos]

Simon: Riot shields in schools may be beneficial, assuming of course that there are people that know how to use them and, of course, they aren't stolen as much of school property often is. Being that you are seemingly very philosophical (not trying to pass judgement) -- I'd be interested in what you thought/think of Douglas Coupland's book: "Hey Nostradamus!" Actually, I think Douglas Coupland is outstanding and everyone should read all his books, but...

Also, I was simply making a statement and a belief I hold (the last of your quoted sections)-- not trying to criticise or put words into peoples' mouths, just a statement. If you think about it, we are far more "civilized" today than in years past when there were public hangings. I would love to see statistics relative to the number of murders committed in say.... 1660 and today -- on a per capita basis. I'm just picking that date randomly as a time before the existance of guns. People are going to kill and/or do harm regardless of the existance of guns. Also, laws, regulations and restrictions will only go so far. Look at how prohibited/restricted/outlawed drugs and alcohol (to minors) are... Clearly, simple laws don't work anyway.

There is no spoon.

[Sal]

[Digitaaliklosetti]

[Simon_Says]

[Sal]

[cfos]

Sal -- I do think we have common ground on somethings, but I disagree with, perhaps, yours and Munan's stand on banning. While many things, as you say, may look good either philosophically, pragmatically or on paper, they won't work in practice. Having that be the case, at least in America due to the 2nd ammendment, the argument becomes moot as they will not be banned. Restricting is another thing, which I don't think anyone is, necessarily, against.

Of course, everyone needs to ask these questions:
1) Do you know more about the issue than the politicans/policy makers
2) If you answered "yes" then it is part of your civic responsibility to do something to educate those in "power"
3) If you answered "yes" and are too busy and important to do anything about it, then you just need to shutdafuckup about it and wait for osmosis to proceed.

Simon: you do have a point about the synthesis of drugs and alcohol and that is a big difference between guns and drugs and/or alcohol. Actually, many pharmacies over here have removed cold medicines that contain ephedrine as it is often used in the synthesis of meth.

[Simon_Says]

Goddammit Munan, I just noticed one of my posts just disappeared!

Is there any way of communicating with the politicians other than lobby groups and connections? Cause the ton of letters and emails that they get are just thrown away, I'm guessing.
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[Munan]

@Simon: Yes, something went wrong when splitting the thread, but I inserted it integrally as a quote in Sal's Thu Nov 08, 2007 10:45 am post. That was taking some liberties, I know, but better then just letting it disappear completely, right?
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The Justified Ancient of Mu Mu

[Sal]

but but but you've violated my post! i look like a jerk now, quoting stuff and never even relating to them! what will the new members think of me? and don't forget that among the new members there are potential chicks!
ok, i'll stop.
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i have no time for anal love

[Ipsa]

[Alternate Spideygal]

Lol! I can definetly agree with that one, Ipsa.
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Married to Azrael.
Queen of Innuendo.

[Blaster]

I know that this is quite the cliché, but if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. By which I mean than banning guns in a legal sense isn't necessarily going to prevent people from getting them. And somebody who is going to use a gun in a crime is unlikely to care much about the illegality of possessing the gun in the first case. Meanwhile, honest citizens are deprived of the right to defend their homes and loved ones because of the law.

I know how the argument goes: if only so and so hadn't had a gun, he wouldn't have been able to perpetrate such a horrendous crime. But it's really not the gun, it's the individual, and if one were to think that that person could have been denied a gun, had they really desired it, I would say that that is probably an overly-idealistic sentiment.
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Context is everything.

[Satan Crime Wash]

[Alternate Spideygal]

How'd you find out Chainsaw?!
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Married to Azrael.
Queen of Innuendo.

[Azrael]

I don't want so sound like a Grammar Nazi, but...

'"Knifes" is the improper way of saying the plural form of 'knife', it should be "Knives"

Just letting ya know...
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Only the strongest will survive.

Married to SpideyGirl.

[Munan]

What the hell are you talking about? Ahem...


Blaster, I understand what you're saying, but I don't think anybody is really protected when everybody owns a gun. I also think it's psychological. You come from a country where the common sense leans towards the right to own guns. Therefore, you wouldn't feel safe if guns were outlawed.

I come from a country where until recently, even police officers didn't always carry a gun and the availability of guns is very restricted. I wouldn't feel safe if we would 'americanise' our gun laws.

In the end, it's a mixture of 'the individual' and the availability of guns. It is a fact that high school shootings and the like occur way more often in countries where guns are widely available - but there are countries where guns are widely available where high school shootings never occur.

However, since it isn't the other way around, I'd still go for my pragmatic approach I proposed a few posts ago.
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The Justified Ancient of Mu Mu

[Aurelyn]

[cfos]

Munan's post [sic]:
(i) I don't think anybody is really protected when everybody owns a gun.
(ii) I also think it's psychological.
(iii) You come from a country where the common sense leans towards the right to own guns.

Therefore, you wouldn't feel safe if guns were outlawed.

No sure I can follow this argument.

Not everyone here owns a gun.
I do agree that psychological factors weigh in.
I'm not sure who you spoke to, but I wouldn't necessarily agree that it is "common sense" to own a gun. It a "right" as stated in the 2nd ammendment, which was written at a time when there was much consternation over the English. In fact many people choose not to own a gun and feel quite safe and would disagree with your statement.

Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else, including me. Of course, if you base your argument on the theory that "high school shootings" is correlated with the "gun availablity" then why haven't there been shootings in Texas rather than Colorado or, if you are going to include college, Virgina?

[Aramor]

[Blaster]

[Azrael]

[Munan]

[Ipsa]

[Sal]

[Munan]