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Predator-raised humans:can it happen?
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Is it possible?
Yes
18%
 18%  [ 4 ]
Yes, but highly unlikely
40%
 40%  [ 9 ]
Maybe
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Not unless something happened to give them a reason to...
31%
 31%  [ 7 ]
Total Votes : 22

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Casandraelf491



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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:38 pm    Post subject: Predator-raised humans:can it happen? Reply with quote

okay, i thought i might as well get this out in the open so here goes...

ever heard of feral children? they're kids who are raised by animals, who end up acting like and maybe even adopting certain physical traits

well, i figured that maybe, just maybe, it could happen if somehow, a human got taken in and raised by predators...keep in mind that this IS just a theory

tell me if it's a feasible theory or not
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Digitaaliklosetti



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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dumb.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, acculturation is pretty much an matter of upbringing. (I know, that was quite the tautology). Predator society seems to be sufficiently compatible. I would suspect that certain physical problems might arise though, (e. g., inability to produce proper phonemes, see pertinent wavelengths of light, etc.)
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Predator-raised humans:can it happen? Reply with quote

Casandraelf491 wrote:
.keep in mind that this IS just a theory


ok, i'll try not to forget that predators are fictitious.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
Well, acculturation is pretty much an matter of upbringing. (I know, that was quite the tautology). Predator society seems to be sufficiently compatible. I would suspect that certain physical problems might arise though, (e. g., inability to produce proper phonemes, see pertinent wavelengths of light, etc.)


that can be fixed easily. preds obviously have the technology to make implants that can mimic certain natural traits in preds

as for the infrared sight, i doubt that would work with a human's vision, so maybe the human's mask could have an infrared filter equipped
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But then again, why would they even try? I mean, we all know how important hunting is in a Pred's life. And as we saw in Predator, he didn't even pay attention to unarmed humans. So why the hell would they care about raising a human?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem here is that yautja and humans are alien species. Think about it for a second. At first glance it may not seem like much, but let me put it in perspective: Gangrene, oak trees, and trilobites are evolutionarily related to us. Yautja are not. Yautja and humans may both be intelligent, similar in body structure, and hold some cultural similarities. But biologically, yautja are from a completely different evolutionary train, from a completely different planet, with a completely different biological history and development.

One of the greater, if not greatest challenge this presents is in mindset. Consider the octopus and chimpanzee. The octopus has shown in many studies to be quite an intelligent animal, perhaps even sentient by some claims. But those studies suggest that the mind set of the octopus is drastically different from ours. Octopuses communicate visually, rather than through sound, because water isn’t exactly as easy to push around with any clarity as air is. So communication relies on a completely different medium. Altavista Babelfish will not be good enough. Then we have the problem that the octopus is typically a solitary creature, that rarely, if ever, forms large groups beyond mating, rearing, and childhood. Humans are social animals. Morality and culture were developed to keep that social structure together. Octopuses, without social groups, would probably be devoid of even these ‘fundamental’ attributes. I repeat, the octopus is like your brother compared to the alien yautja. Intelligence has taken a variety of different forms here on earth. Can one really expect an intelligence from across the cosmos to be compatible with ours?

Then again, empirical evidence shows that yautja are far more similar to us than octopuses are. Yet there would be limits. The chimpanzee is our closest evolutionary relative and the most intelligent animal on earth after us and mice. They have advanced social structures complete with hierarchy, rules of interaction, and even war. In them we see what our lot was like in our distant past. True enough, humans and chimps appear to be able to form close friendship bonds (sometimes escalating to isolated cases where orangutans try to copulate with female human researchers, true story). Rudimentary communication is possible. But even Jane Goodall couldn’t discuss Dante’s Inferno with man’s closest relative. If yautja were to rear a human child (which is highly unlikely given what we know of them, as well as ourselves), that child would be little more to them than chimps are to us, especially considering the yautja’s superior knowledge and development. There’s even evidence for this situation. Consider than the films showed that Yatuja have been around Earth for centuries and yet have never learned the languages, or even ancient versions thereof. They do acknowledge that we are sentient and are worthy of their attention and respect, but there was a barrier between species that they couldn’t cross for thousands of years.

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Nowhere in all space or on a thousand worlds will there be men to share our loneliness. There may be wisdom; there may be power; somewhere across space great instruments, handled by strange, manipulative organs, may stare vainly at our floating cloud wrack, their owners yearning as we yearn. Nevertheless, in the nature of life and in the principles of evolution we have had our answer. Of men elsewhere, and beyond, there will be none forever.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that was kinda what I ment...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(I can't believe I'm getting into another nerdy argument like this.)

@Simon:I don't know why you are claiming irreconcilable genetic differences and disparity of "mindset." Yaujta are "humanoids" after all. (Think Star Trek.)

Casandraelf491 wrote:
that can be fixed easily. preds obviously have the technology to make implants that can mimic certain natural traits in preds


I am not sure how you know this for sure.

Casandraelf491 wrote:
as for the infrared sight, i doubt that would work with a human's vision, so maybe the human's mask could have an infrared filter equipped


Preds don't see infrared light naturally either (discounting that confusing scene at the end of Predator 2. That's why they need technology to accomplish this. The technology would have to be adapted so that the output would be visible to humans.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
(I can't believe I'm getting into another nerdy argument like this.)
@Simon:I don't know why you are claiming irreconcilable genetic differences and disparity of "mindset." Yaujta are "humanoids" after all. (Think Star Trek.)
Are they really so anthropomorphic? Sure there are resemblances, but we jus don’t know enough about them to make any accurate judgments, and what we do know suggests that they are sufficiently different mentally to cause troubles. The big proof here is the yautja disregard of what humans regard as ‘fundamental freedoms.’ They basically murder us and each other on a regular basis, even making it honorable to do so. Such extreme selectionist and seemingly self-destructive tendencies are obviously very different from usual human mentality.

Considering that yautja appear to be highly xenophobic (centuries of visitations and yet no official 'contact' with human civilization, and disregard of alien wants and rights, both contrary to what we would obviously do), and the inevitable biological differences, I'd find it more likely that they'd simply freeze the kid and drop him off at the closest human world than actually raise the child. Even if it did happen though, there'd be problems by the droves. The extremely demanding physical requirements of yautja upbringing would likely kill even the most hardened human child. The environment would be extremely hostile as well, it'd be like releasing a koala into the Sahara desert. Technological solutions are inadequate and problematic, and I'll discuss that topic later. Even if these were bypassed, and the child was raised in ‘incubator’ conditions, then it’s not really yautja upbringing is it?

But let's say that the human was able to survive. What then? Feral children on earth can and do achieve positions of authority and respect among their adoptive species (ex. the Ivan Mushukov case). But can a human integrate fully into a complex, alien culture based on biological and social developments completely isolated from earths? The trouble is that humans can 'downgrade' easily enough, the social structure of wolves and elephants and such are relatively elementary compared to human society. After all, human society is based upon those systems wolves and elephants and such have used for millions of years. But this hypothetical child is being thrown into an advanced, technological society that’s likely far more advanced and developed than our own, not to mention based on probably very different principles. What about reproduction? Any thorough examination of human society reveals that sex is a huge factor in how things are run. What about the yautja then? How would a society be when females basically beat their mates within an inch of their lives every time they had an orgasm? Any integration into such a complex, alien society would be a massive intellectual undertaking, because human intuitions and instincts just won’t serve as they would on earth. As anyone knows, doing anything when you actually have to actively think about it is much harder than if the job can be done on an instinctive or near-instinctive level.

And such a complex society would automatically recognize that the human is not one of them, unlike what terrestrial animals would interpret. This is going to be the biggy. In wolf packs, the wolves might simply recognize the human as just another wolf. But an intelligent species, oh no. The human is human and can’t possibly be yautja. That human is going to be an outsider, perhaps an outsider with authority and respect, but an outsider nonetheless, and that’s going to lead to inevitable tensions. Even with humans it’s the same. Currently Muslims are generally under silent attack by the general western populace, they’re ‘outsiders’, and are often treated as enemies, from passive-aggressiveness to all-out hate. Considering the apparent yautja unwillingness to respect alien rights, basically dumping their will on others (as was the basic premise of both Predator films), that human child better learn to please other people real quick.

In short, to answer the original question: it won't happen, and even if it did, survival is not guaranteed.Push it to the limit! Also, why isn't there a flat-out 'no' option?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_Says wrote:
Are they really so anthropomorphic? Sure there are resemblances, but we jus don’t know enough about them to make any accurate judgments, and what we do know suggests that they are sufficiently different mentally to cause troubles. The big proof here is the yautja disregard of what humans regard as ‘fundamental freedoms.’ They basically murder us and each other on a regular basis, even making it honorable to do so. Such extreme selectionist and seemingly self-destructive tendencies are obviously very different from usual human mentality.


Meh. Human societies have engaged in petty tribal conflicts since the beginning, and even today there are plenty who would not recognize "fundamental freedoms" and happily hunt down other humans as animals. Certainly many aspire to a higher ideal nowadays, but to claim that yaujta-like behavior is completely incompatible with human actions is a bit naive.

Simon_Says wrote:
The extremely demanding physical requirements of yautja upbringing would likely kill even the most hardened human child. The environment would be extremely hostile as well, it'd be like releasing a koala into the Sahara desert.


I don't know. Humans are able to survive in pretty harsh environments here on earth: Siberia, the Australian Outback, tropical rain forests, etc. Such conditions generally prevent them from truly thriving, but survival is possible.

Simon_Says wrote:
What about reproduction?

I defer to s^2 on this one (if she still reads this forum, that is). Wink

Simon_Says wrote:
And such a complex society would automatically recognize that the human is not one of them, unlike what terrestrial animals would interpret. This is going to be the biggy. In wolf packs, the wolves might simply recognize the human as just another wolf. But an intelligent species, oh no. The human is human and can’t possibly be yautja. That human is going to be an outsider, perhaps an outsider with authority and respect, but an outsider nonetheless, and that’s going to lead to inevitable tensions.


Perhaps there would be an element of novelty to the situation, and perhaps there would be great deals of prejudice involved. Such things might make the situation untenable. But certainly there is precedent of adoption of outsiders into a given culture in human society. Who is to say that such a thing could not happen among the yaujta?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there isn't a flat out no option because i figured that anyone who disagreed wouldn't even bother with this thread

and for the record, i figured that, even if they accepted a human into their society, they wouldn't view the human in the same way they view other predators, meaning there's a good chance that when the human gets too old, they either kill said human or leave them somewhere and let them die

in other words, instead of treating the human as a predator, they would regard the human as a human who could fight, act, and speak like a predator
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So basically what were looking for is a big, strong retard with a serious attitude problem.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Tyson was raised by aliens? Holy shit!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_Says wrote:
Mike Tyson was raised by aliens? Holy shit!


Hee hee....
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
Meh. Human societies have engaged in petty tribal conflicts since the beginning, and even today there are plenty who would not recognize "fundamental freedoms" and happily hunt down other humans as animals. Certainly many aspire to a higher ideal nowadays, but to claim that yaujta-like behavior is completely incompatible with human actions is a bit naive.
True enough. I can’t believe I didn’t realize that. With Rome, Mongolia, the Aztecs and Mayans… Jesus we are a bloodthirsty self-centered species. I concede there’s nothing psychological that would bar a human from understanding and operating in Yautja culture.

Blaster wrote:
I don't know. Humans are able to survive in pretty harsh environments here on earth: Siberia, the Australian Outback, tropical rain forests, etc. Such conditions generally prevent them from truly thriving, but survival is possible.
Think again. This is a yautja environment. Alien atmosphere, alien life, alien technology, etc. The atmosphere could well be poison. All food might have to be chemically synthesized or something because the natural life would be inedible for a human. If it’s on a habited planet, primate tree-swinger instincts just aint gonna cut it when the beasties probably don’t sound, look, or act like anything found on Earth. What if that poisonous bug-thing is glowing a big ultraviolet “fuck off!” the human can’t see? In an artificial habitat, ex. spaceship or station, the technology might be too complex for humans to understand or operate, especially if the Yautja are a post-singularians. Look! Dick Grayson, age 12 is fooling with the hyperdrive! Uh oh…

Blaster wrote:
Perhaps there would be an element of novelty to the situation, and perhaps there would be great deals of prejudice involved. Such things might make the situation untenable. But certainly there is precedent of adoption of outsiders into a given culture in human society. Who is to say that such a thing could not happen among the yaujta?
Note that I said that the outsider could reach positions of authority and respect in a society (it’s done all the time here). However if our species is anything to go by, when you pack more than a few dozen random people together, it’s inevitable that some people will not like one or some of the others based on prejudices. If yautja are anything like humans, they’ll have adopted a certain ‘clan mentality’ as on person put it in Discover Magazine, I think. I’m not sure where it is from, but I’ll post the source here when I find it. Basically the guy was talking about religion and the problems it seems to cause. What he said was that humans naturally create ‘clans’, groups of people with common beliefs, interests, etc. These clans can be based on anything. Culture, age, race, religion, whatever can be classified can be used to make a ‘clan’. When clans with different values encounter one another, it’s natural for the clans to go hostile on one another simply out of self-interest. The level of hostility will vary, naturally. This theory is used to explain why on earth, humans have their irrational prejudices.
In the hypothetical human in yautja city scenario, some yautja will inevitably show their open disdain for having a non-yautja ‘invading’ or ‘trespassing’ their society when the non-yautja should clearly be left with its own species. Then there will be some who will take action on such a belief. That human just won't stand a chance without some serious protection that yautja society doesn't appear to foster for anyone.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn Simon...I think your nerd level just reached an all time high.

Also I love you for that Dick Grayson reference.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm the goddamn Panda Shogun!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sighs* looks like my theory doesn't stand much of a chance
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea Simon will pretty much destroy theory after theory that anyone may come up with. You know why? Because he's the goddamn Panda Shogun.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I'm kinda bored. Not bored enough to actually read Simon's posts, but bored enough to skim a few sentences here and there. Granted, I don't know much about Preds or Aliens beyond the movies. Having said that, are the Preds that "we" have come into contact with -- via movies, an accurate reflection of the ENTIRE Pred society? Or, as I've envisioned, a small subset of Preds that like to hunt...? I mean, if you go to their "home" are you going to find a bunch of faggy-ish Preds in an Erasure (Pred) band? How about bowling -- are there Preds that like to bowl? Maybe there is a Martha Stewert Pred that has her own show (and has served time)... If this is the case, than there is no problem with the original question. Of course, if all Preds are hunters... maybe they'd take humans and raise them to fight -- assuming that there is a Michael Vick-like Pred.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casandraelf491 wrote:
*sighs* looks like my theory doesn't stand much of a chance


That's not so bad, just keep trying.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quotation from Concrete Jungle to support what cfos said:
Quote:
Those ships weren't just a couple of desperate criminals or crazed degenerates running loose; those ships were an organised party of some kind, a big one, and that meant that whatever they were doing, it was just fine with the folks back home.
Or maybe it wasn't; maybe when those monsters got home, they'd find themselves facing the alien equivalent of a picket line, placards reading SAVE THE HUMANS, angry demonstraters throwing blood or paint at the hunters the way demonstrates attacked women in fur coats...
We can't be certain of anything about Predator society as a whole. But since basically anything goes as far as that's concerned, we can't really use it to work from.
So, the question has got to be more: "Could the Predators we have seen so far raise a human child?"
Thus far there have been two examples of a human being given a clan mark, but only one went on to hunt with the yautja. However, that's not really the same as raising a child. How likely is a yautja, upon coming across a baby, likely to pick it up and take it home? Not very. They've left alone unarmed or weak targets before, but the books have said that's not about pity, just not wishing to appear dishonourable (if of course you distrust the books, then... well, we really don't know nearly enough about the hunters to assume anything).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was thinking more along the lines of a human old enough to be able to walk, talk, and go to the bathroom unaided
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Casandraelf491 wrote:
I was thinking more along the lines of a human old enough to be able to walk, talk, and go to the bathroom unaided.


Well that's practically a fanfiction then. A Predator would never take an adult human with them to train let alone a whiny teenager or even a whiny little kid.

Humans are prey. If a Yautja took a human with them...the relationship would strictly be master and pet. Simple as that.

Although...I wouldn't mind being one's pet....>_>
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