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Spiderman 3 -- may contain spoilers
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 5:04 pm    Post subject: Spiderman 3 -- may contain spoilers Reply with quote

Putting this in a separate thread as people may not have seen this and people may discuss things from the movie that are considered spoilers:

Having gone to this movie this past weekend... I wasn't THAT impressed. I mean, it was ok for what it was, but it seemed awfully long in some parts and kind of quick and jumbled in other spots where it seemed rushed -- like the whole Brock competing for the job setting and then getting fired, of course. Also, wasn't that impressed with how quickly Venom seems to be gone. As for the Sandman, why would he team up with Venom if he isn't "a bad guy" -- his speech at the end of the movie? Sure, I know it is a comic book and as I said, I thought it was ok. Just didn't seem to be a blockbuster. Not sure if there will be more because Toby said in interviews he doesn't know if he wants to do any others. Time will tell -- any opinions? If so, state reasons rather than just spout out how F'ing great it was.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I enjoyed it, but there were parts that made me question my choice to pay to see it. I didn't get that feeling from the first two. It left me with some questions.

Some of those questions include poor storytelling:

Spidey rescues Gwen from the mad crane but then forgets the crane's operator? No love for the working man, I tell ya.
Peter doesn't notice that meteorite slamming into the ground a few yards away from him and MJ?
The butler couldn't have told Harry about his dad's wounds back before he went out and tried to kill his best friend?
Sandman loses his mind in the third act and teams up with Venom to kill Spidey . . . why? Then he's all cool and remorseful later? WHA da FUUUH?

Some were a question of characterization:

Since when can Sandman fly?
Why does Sandman become a giant, mindless, groaning beast when he gets real big?
Why does Harry look like an extreme sports athlete instead of like his dad? It would have been much more believable and would have worked so much better if he had donned his father's gear, meaning Spidey would have had to face a foe he saw die.
Peter brings a sample of some unknown life form with fantastic properties and physiology to Dr. Connors and neither of them is more impressed than if Peter had brought him a mushroom from the front lawn.
What the hell happened to his Spider sense? He gets his ass handed to him pretty soundly in a few of those fights. Sure, Venom doesn't trigger his instincts, but it was like it didn't exist at all, when fighting Sandman or the New Goblin.

But I did like the movie for:
The black costume. It was pretty tight.
Venom, though underutilized and killed off like a bitch, was pretty cool.
Casting James Cromwell as Captain Stacey. He just looks like him.
Peter's takedown of Harry and ruination of Brock while in "Dark Peter" mode. Tobey Maguire can do bad fairly well.

It's too bad that Avi Arad told Sam Raimi he had to include Venom in the movie. It would have been fine with just Sandman and Goblin Jr. Arad made him include Venom, which automatically limited the role the character could play due to the necessity to introduce Eddie Brock and the events which led to his transformation. It was just forced.

I give it a C+.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Venom died a really dissapointing death. And very much agreed, he was very under-used. Venom had only like 12 minutes of screen-time, not even an under-statement too. Also he didn't have his long tongue and didn't salivate like crazy, that also mad me mad.

But still, I thought it was better then the 2nd movie, I rather enjoyed it alot.

I also loved how Peter went flamboyantly emo. That gave me a good laugh.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with all that's posted although as a caveat to Smiley -- HOW can Peter be a great student if he brings a biological specimen to... a physics professor? I may be wrong, but wasn't Dr. Conners physics and not chemistry or biology? I thought he made a comment like that... Also, kudos to pointing out Peter's lack of a Spidey-sense in this movie and props from being a bad-ass. If I let my hair grow out long enough, maybe I'll comb it down when going into bad-ass mode!

I was watching TNT's coverage of the Jazz basketball game last night and Barkley makes bluntly said that Spiderman 3 sucked. Kenny made an interesting comment -- when a movie series has a sequel, the sequel is better than the original. When a movie has a 3rd related movie (not sure it's still called a sequel), the 1st movie becomes the best. When a movie has a 4th, it reaches cult status and the 2nd movie in the series becomes the best. Interesting theory, although I still think Empire strikes back was the best of the original trilogy.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was awful. I mean, I wasn't that much of a fan of the first two, but still. I think my biggest problem with it was how lame the 'evil' Peter Parker was. A glorious opportunity for some great scenes there absolutely squandered by Captain Lame evilly dancing with some other bird in front of his girlfriend. Oh, please...
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, that was one scene I enjoyed -- keeping in mind that this is a comic book-based movie. Granted, he wasn't as "Bad" as MJ, but it was a little nice to see him abuse his powers and be a wee bit vindictive. One of my biggest grips that I haven't mentioned -- is there anyone in New York who hasn't seen him with the Spidey mask?
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That belongs in the same filing cabinet as how come no-one recognises Superman with glasses on...
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cfos wrote:
Actually, that was one scene I enjoyed -- keeping in mind that this is a comic book-based movie. Granted, he wasn't as "Bad" as MJ, but it was a little nice to see him abuse his powers and be a wee bit vindictive. One of my biggest grips that I haven't mentioned -- is there anyone in New York who hasn't seen him with the Spidey mask?


Just the mask on or with the suit and no mask?
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, he spent more time in this movie in broad daylight unmasked in his costume. So that really bugged me, too. And why does every fucking supervillain have to find out his secret identity by the end of the movie? Most of his foes never knew who he was. The Goblin knew but he died shortly after finding out, just like in the first movie. Venom knew for obvious reasons: the symbiote joined with him and their mental link allowed it. Doc Ock? I can't remember if he ever found out, although he did almost mary Aunt May and he knows who Spider-Man is in the Ultimate series. I do know that Sandman doesn't know that Parker is Spidey, so that really REALLY bugged me. The whole plotline making him out to be the "real" killer of Uncel Ben just pissed me off. They couldn't come up with some other excuse to make Spidey wanna kill him?

More things that made this movie disappointing:
-Why was Sandman, basically a good guy in a bad situation, so quick to team up with Venom?
-How does teaming up with Venom to kill Spider-Man help Sandman save his daughter's life?
-When Darth Parker walked down the streets some girls recoiled in fear while others wanted to jump him. Which is it? It was like they filmed the scene two entirely different ways and then edited them together by accident.
-Okay, so MJ knows Peter is Spider-Man. Fine. From what she says and how she interacts with both Harry and Peter she seems to have no idea that Harry or his Father were the Goblin or insane. That being the case why does she think that Harry could come close to killing Peter/Spider-man when Harry threatens to kill Peter?
-What the hell happened to Sandman at the end? Is he dead? Did Peter decide to let him escape to rob more banks to save his daughter?

I know this movie was Raimi's "Director's cut" as are the other two - the studio gave him final edit power and full reign - but it just seems like there must be a great movie in there somewhere that got lost in all the bullshit.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smileypen wrote:
I know this movie was Raimi's "Director's cut" as are the other two - the studio gave him final edit power and full reign - but it just seems like there must be a great movie in there somewhere that got lost in all the bullshit.


Sometimes the movie is just plain shite. It doesn't take away from the other great stuff that Raimi has done (mostly just Evil Dead) but I don't think any of the Spiderman films are playing to his strengths and it feels like he just plain gave up halfway through editing this one.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of Evil Dead... Did I see Bruce Campell during the opening credits? Who was he?

Smiley nicely summarized a number of things I also felt. I, too, didn't understand the signifcance of the end scene with Sandman and Spidey-Parker. I mean, was Raimi going for the whole Spidey-gone-bad-but-finds-redemtion-through-forgiveness plot line a la Star Wars Darth Vader? Was THAT the essence of the movie? If so, and maybe because of it, that would explain the poor amount of time spent with Venom versus the amount of time spent with Peter fretting over what happens when he puts on the black suit -- there was also the Jazz scene where the black suit was partially visable after Petey's dance, and then succoming to the dark side. I thought that THAT might have been why some parts just sucked.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smileypen wrote:
-When Darth Parker walked down the streets some girls recoiled in fear while others wanted to jump him. Which is it? It was like they filmed the scene two entirely different ways and then edited them together by accident.


In the beginning the girls liked him because he, apparently, looked hot. But after Darth Emo realized this, he started doing those wrong dance movies... and flirting back at the ladies. That was kinda sad... and that was what turned them down.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aramor wrote:
Darth Emo


Very Happy

That's the word I was looking for...
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I think about it...the movie was really REALLY confusing. Thanks for putting it all into perspective for me Smileypen.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome. It was like all the characters had ADD.

Sandman was like, "do-be-do, gonna get some money for my sick daughter, I'm gonna get some money for, oh, hey, Venom, yeah, sure I'll join you to kill Spidey for no real reason related to my character. Dammit, we lost. Now I'm sad because I made mistakes. I didn't mean to kill your uncle. I mean, I meant to kill you, but now I'm, like, so over that, yaknow, but my daughter is most important, do-be-do."

And I guess Spidey only saves hot chicks from marauding construction equipment. He caught Gwen and lowered her to safety then forgot that this giant, steel arm is still swinging around madly and may hit the buildings around it some more, not to mention the operator.

Then there's Harry. For a guy who's constantly bathing in a psychosis inducing drug (because as we know from the first two films, Harry isn't smart enough to know how to adapt the formula, he ISN'T a geek and we know it) he's awfully understanding later about teaming up even after he's been fucking disfigured by Spider-man. He lays down his sword because . . . the butler did it?

Even the writers of the movie couldn't keep track of their previous plot points. Harry tells Bernard to go get some food because MJ is coming over, and then we see the two of them cooking omelets in the kitchen. So, did the butler forget to get some food or did Harry change his mind? It's obvious Harry can't cook, look at the friggin mess he makes!

Makes my head hurt...
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smileypen wrote:
You're welcome. It was like all the characters had ADD.

Sandman was like, "do-be-do, gonna get some money for my sick daughter, I'm gonna get some money for, oh, hey, Venom, yeah, sure I'll join you to kill Spidey for no real reason related to my character. Dammit, we lost. Now I'm sad because I made mistakes. I didn't mean to kill your uncle. I mean, I meant to kill you, but now I'm, like, so over that, yaknow, but my daughter is most important, do-be-do."

And I guess Spidey only saves hot chicks from marauding construction equipment. He caught Gwen and lowered her to safety then forgot that this giant, steel arm is still swinging around madly and may hit the buildings around it some more, not to mention the operator.

Then there's Harry. For a guy who's constantly bathing in a psychosis inducing drug (because as we know from the first two films, Harry isn't smart enough to know how to adapt the formula, he ISN'T a geek and we know it) he's awfully understanding later about teaming up even after he's been fucking disfigured by Spider-man. He lays down his sword because . . . the butler did it?

Even the writers of the movie couldn't keep track of their previous plot points. Harry tells Bernard to go get some food because MJ is coming over, and then we see the two of them cooking omelets in the kitchen. So, did the butler forget to get some food or did Harry change his mind? It's obvious Harry can't cook, look at the friggin mess he makes!

Makes my head hurt...


If you think about it, you try making a Spiderman film. It can be quite a hassle.

cfos wrote:
Speaking of Evil Dead... Did I see Bruce Campell during the opening credits? Who was he?


He was the Host in the French Restaraunt.

cfos wrote:
Also, kudos to pointing out Peter's lack of a Spidey-sense in this movie


Venom can bypass his spidey-sense. But what happened with Harry and Sandman, not sure.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azrael wrote:
If you think about it, you try making a Spiderman film. It can be quite a hassle.

Hassle or not, the first two movies didn't contain any of these shortcomings in continuity and logic.

cfos wrote:
Venom can bypass his spidey-sense. But what happened with Harry and Sandman, not sure.

I mentioned that already.

By the way, it's Spider-Man, not Spiderman.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I mentioned that already.

By the way, it's Spider-Man, not Spiderman."

My bad. Sorry.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're gay for not being able to spell Spider-Man correctly!!!

Wait, wrong thread.

Also what sorta bugged me (no pun intended) was that Bruce Campbell was also the obnoxious usher at the theatre where MJ did her play... wouldn't Peter recognize him and avoid that place?
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey -- I knew I wasn't crazy for seeing Bruce in the credits! Bruce has been doing Old Spice commericals. My Favorite:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yg6bZSM48vU
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce is indeed awesome. He was playing a different character in this movie. That's why Peter didn't recognize him. He wasn't French in the second movie.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, the job was kinda the same... and I reckon that now he's another character.

It still would've been cool if there was some kinda reference to it.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best scene of the entire movie was with Bruce as the host and kept signaling the band to come and it turned out to be the wrong time...every time. That part made me giggle like a prepubescent school boy.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hehe... yeah.

And damn, ME a pretty hardcore Spider-Man fan, always forgetting that little dash. I feel ashamed.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best way to recall the hyphen is to think about how each spelling is pronounced. "Spiderman" sounds like "spidermin" while "Spider-Man" sounds like, uh, "Spider-Man". Cool
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