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Sal



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Brazelton wrote:
holokaustos wrote:
Even in disagreement, the right to voice an opinion is recognized.

Concordantly, shouldn't the same courtesy be extended to people who disagree with you?
If you think the quality has slipped, you're free to voice that opinion. If I happen to disagree with you, I'm free to voice that as well.


holokaustos never said you weren't, man.
that's false accusation.

Tom Brazelton wrote:
The problem I think most people are having with your comments is that they do not appear to stem from any genuine concern. You are not providing advice or any potential solutions and it comes off a little holier-than-thou. Regardless of your intentions, that seems to be the majority perception.


c'mon, we don't know Bernie, we are all mere readers of his strip. the only thing that brought us here was the strip, not any "genuine concern" for its author.
what concerns can there be other than the quality of the strip itself?
and how is such concern not genuine?

secondly, Bernie didn't ask us for advice and potential solutions. he just stated a fact and allowed us space to comment upon it. that's what holokaustos did, and that's fine. you (and the majority) don't like holokaustos's opinion and that's fine too.

thirdly, majority can be wrong. no further comment, just keep that in mind.

Tom Brazelton wrote:
Understandably, this has left you feeling somewhat defensive. But you're not helping the situation by stoking the embers.


who wouldn't be left somewhat defensive by an angry crowd like that?
you're like a lynch mob, guys.
even worse, you are an unjust lynch mob.

sorry, but i felt the discussion has gotten dangerously close to a let's-flame-da-bastard party. and i can't help but think that some jumping a flaming bandwagon is in progress here.
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Sal



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

double post, sorry, but it already got too long.

CatCreature wrote:
holokaustos: It's people like you that makes me realize why I suffered a burnout three years ago!


i am most intrigued.
would you be so kind as to elaborate?
what did those cruel holokaustoses do to you, huh?
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Chris Davis



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No-one's suggesting that holokaustos can't make the statements he has, or that his freedoms should be curtailed.

But this isn't a matter of rights; it's politeness - and criticising someone who gives his time, efforts and talent so unstintingly - entirely for others' benefit - is obviously going to be seen as rude, regardless of any objectivity in the comment. It's that apparent rudeness that has pissed everyone off.

Seems to me most people here, like me, are just damn grateful to Bernie for all his wonderful work. I only hope that his new projects lead to the vast wealth and fame he richly deserves. If I can add some even more grotesque but entirely appropriate sucking-up: AlP rules, and its author is a god.

CD
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Army of Darkness



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holokaustos wrote:
I am an idiot who tells people what to do, and even when other people point this out, I say the same thing over and over again, completely missing the point of what everyone else has just said with regards to my saying the same thing, again.


Yep, couldnt agree more. You keep saying Bernie should concentrate on ALP and nothing else, then people point out you have no right to, but you try to justify your arguement by saying it again. Then after critising the strip and saying he should cut back if he cant keep up the quality, people told you to stop reading it if you didnt like it, and you have the audacity to say thats a dumb idea. No it isnt, its a great idea- you seem like one of those people who what a violent film, knowing its going to be violent, then complain about the level of violence in it. Its simple really, if you dont like the comic anymore then fuck off, really, it is that simple. And critising people for making perfectly valid points just because they dont fit with your idea of how things should be done is just childish, allbeit put in a very clever way with lots of big words. I have dealt with people like you before, people who,like the sound of their own voice too much, and will argue for the sake of argueing when theres nothing to be gained. Keep up the meds holokaustos; I bet one day someone wont bother trying to reason with the unreasonable, instead they'll just throw you off a bridge.
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Munan
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sal. Just Sal. wrote:
sorry, but i felt the discussion has gotten dangerously close to a let's-flame-da-bastard party.


Yes. And that's why moderators are around on this site!

Everybody's made his or her point. You guys do seriously not agree. I strongly suggest (and a moderator doesn't really just 'strongly suggest') you all let it go for a while (at least as far as this thread is concerned).

So, here's something else for you all to discuss:
I've always felt there was a bit of a stand-up-comedian to Bernie, so him blogging could be interesting. Don't you think?
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bernieh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, hey, thanks for all the words of support but don't keep giving it more attention if you're offended by holokaustos' opinion.

I'm open to constructive criticism, so thanks for speaking your mind, holokaustos. A lot of people have effectively responded to the tone of your initial post, basically saying it's misguided to think you can tell someone what they should do with their free time, especially if it's free for you to enjoy. As for your most recent, clarifying post, you're right that it's dangerous to attempt to do too much. That's exactly why I need to scale back aLp. Instead of looking at it as the other things in my life taking away from aLp, how about aLp has been taking away from the other things in my life? This comic is just one of the things I do. As for it being the only thing in my life being seen by thousands of people, that doesn't mean it should automatically be the biggest priority.

Your opinion that it should be shut down rather than scaled back isn't totally without merit, but it just seems obvious to me, personally, that some is better than none. I'm cracking myself up writing the next one but I'll definitely need the extra time my new relaxed schedule affords me.

Anyway thanks again for your opinion and for everyone else's support.
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Robot Chicken Koko



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said. I hope making time for things other than ALP is a good move, and if it is, I won't be surprised.

Now here's a question: Will there be closure to the ALP 'saga?' Or really just the ALP 'series of events.'
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holokaustos




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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bernieh wrote:
Instead of looking at it as the other things in my life taking away from aLp, how about aLp has been taking away from the other things in my life?


And thank you for making a point I hadn't considered. I never considered the possibility that aLp itself was sometimes a hinderance to your life, drawing attention away from other priorities (i.e. family). That statement, more than anything else that's been written, made me stop and reevaluate things. Thank you for it.

Also, thank you for your tact and professionalism. You surprised me by taking a higher road than what has been shown here these last few days. I hope you understand that I did not mean any offense. I simply saw you appear to repeat my mistakes and it struck a cord with me, that's all. As I've made clear, I truly believe that you're funny and talented; my comments were never meant to convey otherwise.

As for me 'talking to hear my own voice', it's simply not true. I have been here for nearly 2 and 1/2 years, commanding a grand total of less than 15 posts. That hardly sounds like someone who loves to hear his own voice. These posts were done (a) out of concern for the situation, and (b) to exercise the option given on this forum to voice my opinion. Nothing more.

Army of Darkness: I would've listened more to you, had you not gone the route of "fuck off". Your anger was justified, but I'd be willing to bet that the words you chose were a poor example of yourself. I wound up tuning you out.

Sal.Just Sal.: Thank you for standing up against the crowd. It's very difficult to do, even if it is an 'anonymous' Internet. I appreciated seeing someone take a stand like that.

To answer the Mod.'s comment and question: yes, I think this needs to be wrapped up, to which I can say that this will be one of my last posts on this thread. And, yes, I think seeing a simple blog from Bernie would be great, as long as it did NOT take away from his priorities. That would seem to negate his reasons for curtailing aLp... Smile

Thanks for all of the posts, both for letting me air my opinion and for making me see some points I may have missed.

Later.


Last edited by holokaustos on Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:05 pm; edited 3 times in total
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jyzukowski



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:25 am    Post subject: back to the original post... Reply with quote

totally unrelated to this debacle...

best of luck to you bernie. i've only been a reader for eight months, but i've become a devout fan. i'm excited to see what's next for aLp and your other projects!

take care!
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Sal



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[chef'svoice]everything worked out, what a happy eeeend...
Americans and Canadians are friends agaaaain...
[/chef'svoice]
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NotDeadYet



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

viva la bernie!! good luck with your "stuff" I'll miss the routine of aLp, and I look forward to seeing what other projects you have going on.
oh and PS I love the bike. you could use the table to eat pancakes as well as blog.
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Corporal Waffle



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just needed to post a "late entry"

holokaustos wrote:
(prev posts)


i totaly see your point, but i also think your first and second post was a little offensive to us fans....
(wich i will not comment further, because others have stated it quite well)

i also think that its great you want to prevent any other for making the same mistakes you have done (wich i will not comment further, because i don't know anything about you or your life)

(by this i don't mean any offense to you or your life. )

Also i hope you will take a place in the rest of the forum, and step into the world of forum whores (read most post by all the 1000+ posters id you are confused or simply do a search on the site Razz )

also i thank you for making me read all these post just to see how it evolved.

cya around m8!


EDIT

Thank you Bernie for all the laughs you have given me through my year here in Alp, i THINK i speak for all when i say you strip is fantastic!
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CatCreature



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sal. Just Sal. wrote:

CatCreature wrote:
holokaustos: It's people like you that makes me realize why I suffered a burnout three years ago!


i am most intrigued.
would you be so kind as to elaborate?
what did those cruel holokaustoses do to you, huh?


Well, how should I put it?
I was, once, "adding too much to my plate" (weird expression, never heard that one before) and when I tried to take away some of the content and change the rest people started to disagree. At work, at home! "Do this!" "Do that!"

It ended up with sick leave and medication and I'm still suffering from it!

In all; I think it's a good thing Bernie realize what's going on and takes precautions!
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holokaustos




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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vevlaa wrote:
Also i hope you will take a place in the rest of the forum, and step into the world of forum whores...


Thank you for the offer, but I prefer to be on semi-permanent lurker status. Besides, that's one of the very first things I did that started my problem back then: incessant scanning of forums and constantly posting to them. I never realized how much I was devoting to it until I lost power one day, for about five days. Made me understand exactly how much time and energy I was taking away from the things in life that were actually important.

Still, I really do appreciate the offer. I might occasionally take you up on it, hopefully more often than once every year or two... Smile
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what did those cruel holokaustoses do to you, huh?
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Sal



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CatCreature wrote:
Well, how should I put it?
I was, once, "adding too much to my plate" (weird expression, never heard that one before) and when I tried to take away some of the content and change the rest people started to disagree. At work, at home! "Do this!" "Do that!"

It ended up with sick leave and medication and I'm still suffering from it!


well, okay. that didn't really clarify anything, but i don't want to pry too much so i'll stop here.


@holokaustos: i love your sig, man. i'm honestly flattered. Very Happy
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Munan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, pretty much like Vevlaa's sig works for me.
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Corporal Waffle



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^, what can i say Razz
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Tyris



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

holokaustos wrote:
stand back and look at the past year or two objectively
Having done that, presumably I'm now qualified to say I don't agree with 80% of what you've said.
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CatCreature



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sal. Just Sal. wrote:
well, okay. that didn't really clarify anything, but i don't want to pry too much so i'll stop here.


Like I said: I don't know how to put it. I got sick due to people complaining about how I lived my life and did my work. (Mixed with a buzy life and hard work...)

But I'll stop here too! This is not the place to bicker about my misery.
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h8GWB



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm...it seems that a lot of webcomics lately seem to be slowing down, right around the time when my mind-crushing depression is urging me not to do anything productive.

COINCIDENCE?!

Even if it is, it's not helping this nagging theory I have that the entire universe is just a figmant of my imagination (see Cogito ergo sum, by Descartes) and that all events I experience are just my subconcious making up obviously coinciental stuff.
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holokaustos




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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sal. Just Sal. wrote:
@holokaustos: i love your sig, man. i'm honestly flattered. Very Happy

I'm glad you like it. I figured I needed a good sig and that seemed to be the best thing going for me. Smile

Tyris wrote:
Having done that, presumably I'm now qualified to say I don't agree with 80% of what you've said.

Okay.

h8GWB wrote:
Even if it is, it's not helping this nagging theory I have that the entire universe is just a figmant of my imagination (see Cogito ergo sum, by Descartes) and that all events I experience are just my subconcious making up obviously coinciental stuff.


Umm...Wow, that's just kind of...scary. If you're correct, then what does that make all of us? Confused
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what did those cruel holokaustoses do to you, huh?
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h8GWB



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^
Obviously, seperate consciousnesses in my head with antagonistic tendancies. LOL (to myself?)
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Caedwhittle



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aww, I looked forward to this twice a week. Oh well, do what you gotta do, and soon, you'll probably do a new one.
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