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Predator vs Elite
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Frost



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I always say to simplify things is to have them both unarmed. Armor and equipment is considered, but no weapons.
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Simon_Says



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

guyveraxe wrote:
Going back on topic, I need to correct my comparison of long range weapons.
Plasma Caster (Pred Shoulder Cannon) = Particle Beam Rifle (Covi Sniper)
Smart Disc = Needler, roughly. And this is a stretch
I find this a very satisfying analogy. I was restricted more or less earlier by the halo 1 arsenal, but yes, the covey beam rifle does seem to be more similar than the fuel rod. The disk (or shuriken for the AvP iteration) however doesn't explode on contact, is reusable, and the user is left weaponless when the disk is in flight. I think the closest thing would be either the net/netgun, but then again both of those are non-lethal.

guyveraxe wrote:
I should also add that as far as detection skills, the Pred's is completely visual based, with the ability to see through any spectrum with the aid of the mask, and the Elite has motion sensors. The Preds are known for stealth skills among their entire society, and are also much more agile than Elites.
Motion detectors can see through active-camo/cloaking devices (I treat them as identicle technology except maybe for the mechanics and perks of thier respective versions), wheras visual sensors might be useless against invisible opponents. However, cloaking might only be functional for (a) specific range(s) of the EMR spectrum, and viewing the oponent outside of that spectrum would reveal them.
However, predator masks are equiped with auditory /capture/ recognition/ enhancement. Big, big bonus to the Preds.

guyveraxe wrote:
Also as for stealth, it again depends on the Elite Rank. There are the SpecOps Elites, dressed in all black and masters of stealth.
Many other ranks are equiped with Active Camoflauge, which is surprisingly effective to the casual observer. Elite a/c seems very similiar in effect and effectivness to Predator cloaking. Thus I see no obvious advantage stealth-wise from either faction, unless those boots Elites wear carry sound/tremor dampeners on them.

Mango wrote:
The Elites are actually very agile and nimble, depending on the rank, I remember in Halo:CE, that sometimes Elite Zealots woul jump litterally 15 feet in the air with an energy sowrd and do a fatal downward strike, which would likely down a SPARTAN II soldier, as well as a Predator. They also have the lunge technique where they charge into ane enemy and ram theor sword into them, killig them instantly.
One request: someone find out how the Predator can move. Speed, control, acrobatics, stamina, etc. I have the impression the PRed dwarfs the Elite in all these respects but I, being a sore and utter noob, don't have any of the Predator films on me to confrim.
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Azrael



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ahve Predator, the first one, And the most impressive things the Predator did was leap from tree-to-tree. But then again, in the 2nd, the Predator did alot of crazy stuff. But, between the Sangheili, and the Yautja, it would depend on the rank. Like a veteran Elite is very agile, as well as a warrior Predator.
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Frost



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shall we assume they have reletively the same battle experience?


The problem with this whole thing is the elites themselves are so varied.

An elite with blue armor, a rookie, and an elite with white armor, a commanding veteren, are like day and night. A rookie would lose to a predator, but I think the commander could take a pred down easily.

So I would say we assume its a Red Elite, which is more of a happy medium.

Who is stronger, though? An elite has similar muscular strength as Master Chief, and we already said in an old topic that Master Chief was stronger than a Predator. I would say the elite wins in that catagory.

Stealth? I would say predator wins this category, however, elites are not completely unstealthy.

Speed? I would say predator wins here, too.

Agility? This one, however, goes to the elite. They are extremely agile beasts, diving, sidestepping, jumping and dodging.

Weaponry? Tie. They both have good melee weapons and they both have good distance weapons. The disc would serve the predator well, but a well placed plasma grenade stuck to the predator would be overkill.

I can't think of anything off the top of my head...
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guyveraxe



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_Says wrote:
guyveraxe wrote:
I should also add that as far as detection skills, the Pred's is completely visual based, with the ability to see through any spectrum with the aid of the mask, and the Elite has motion sensors. The Preds are known for stealth skills among their entire society, and are also much more agile than Elites.
Motion detectors can see through active-camo/cloaking devices (I treat them as identicle technology except maybe for the mechanics and perks of thier respective versions), wheras visual sensors might be useless against invisible opponents. However, cloaking might only be functional for (a) specific range(s) of the EMR spectrum, and viewing the oponent outside of that spectrum would reveal them.


Cloaking doesn't mask heat, at least I wouldn't think so.

Also the needler-disc comparison, needlers aren't anywhere near as accurate in following as the smartdisc, hence why I thought the comparison worked.
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Azrael



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, the Disk is much more advanced and deadlier than the needler. But the needler, in the right circumstances, can be just as effective.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Frost



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA HA HA!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eww! Is that the back of some guy's head?! OMG!!
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Azrael



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is a very disturbing picture.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guyveraxe wrote:
Cloaking doesn't mask heat, at least I wouldn't think so.
Heat-vision is basically the same as infra-red (objects that emit thermal energy also emit infra-red radiation)

So yes it actually would be masked.
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Frost



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesn't make any sense...
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Complex_Number_States
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, in the first predator movie, cloaking masked gravity.

You have this humongous alien dude who must weigh 300 pounds, minimum, leaping from treetop to treetop, and the trees aren't shaking or creaking, the limbs aren't sagging or snapping, leaves are not being shaken loose.

The only way that could happen is if gravity were being mitigated in some way. Because trees don't normally act like that when large creatures are cavorting in them.

Right?

Or am I full of shit, as usual?
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guyveraxe



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

complexnumbers wrote:
Well, in the first predator movie, cloaking masked gravity.

You have this humongous alien dude who must weigh 300 pounds, minimum, leaping from treetop to treetop, and the trees aren't shaking or creaking, the limbs aren't sagging or snapping, leaves are not being shaken loose.

The only way that could happen is if gravity were being mitigated in some way. Because trees don't normally act like that when large creatures are cavorting in them.

Right?

Or am I full of shit, as usual?


That's called primitive visual technology. Remember, Pred 1 was made a while ago, so they weren't being completely accurate. If Preds could manipulate gravity then they'd never end up in the water would they.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_Says wrote:
Heat-vision is basically the same as infra-red (objects that emit thermal energy also emit infra-red radiation)


Objects with a temperature near that of the human body can emit radiation in the infrared range. Something colder would not emit infrared. Also, hotter objects can radiate photons of higher frequency (think of a red hot piece of metal; that can radiate in the visible range).

@complex
In theory, the materials of the pred's body could be less dense than those of the human body, so a large body wouldn't necessarily translate into a large mass, but that is unlikely. In defense of the movie, the pred was mainly standing on the large branches of old, sturdy trees, but, in all likelihood, any lack of movement of smaller branches is just oversight.
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Simon_Says



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
Simon_Says wrote:
Heat-vision is basically the same as infra-red (objects that emit thermal energy also emit infra-red radiation)
Objects with a temperature near that of the human body can emit radiation in the infrared range. Something colder would not emit infrared. Also, hotter objects can radiate photons of higher frequency (think of a red hot piece of metal; that can radiate in the visible range).
Oh bugger.

Blaster wrote:
@complex
In theory, the materials of the pred's body could be less dense than those of the human body, so a large body wouldn't necessarily translate into a large mass, but that is unlikely. In defense of the movie, the pred was mainly standing on the large branches of old, sturdy trees, but, in all likelihood, any lack of movement of smaller branches is just oversight.
This link seems to disprove your theory. As stated, Yautja males are on average 250-350 pounds. Also for a huminoid of 2 meters, that would seem to indicate human-like body density. And yes, the Predator was mainly using pretty sturdy branches to move around. And the Pred in cloaked scenes usually didn't shuffle through foliage that often, and when it did it obviously created quite a ruckus. Also if gravity was 'masked', the Pred would just eed to jump and there he goes off into space until he turns off the dman cloak.
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Blaster
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I hadn't consulted canon on that one and was mainly just musing, so I used that disclaimer "but that is unlikely."

I think complex's statement about "masking gravity" is just a joke, and he is instead referring to a perceived lack of attention to detail on the part of the makers of the movie.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that's mainly lack of detail...

Warning, the following explains something about the special effects which could take away some of the magic of the movie... for certain nutcases. Do not read it if you don't want the movie to be spoiled for ya.
Spoiler:
There's more lack of detail. The Predator's cloaking effect in the first two movies was actually painted directly on the movietape or something. They didn't do his dreads because it would be too much work. So I wouldn't be surprised if the not moving off the branches was also considered too much work.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blaster wrote:
I think complex's statement about "masking gravity" is just a joke, and he is instead referring to a perceived lack of attention to detail on the part of the makers of the movie.

Being the anal-retentive detail freak that I am, I couldn't help but notice that the predator was following the humans by moving through the trees, but not causing any disturbance that was noticeable by the humans.

And yes, Aramor, it would have been waaaay lots of work to put that into the movie. I understand on that level why it was left out.

But my reaction is based more on the fact that I would expect trained soldiers who had their paranoia and alertness tuned to such a high level that there is no possible way that a creature of that size could move through the trees without them noticing.

And I know, I know, it's only a movie. Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Billy noticed something... Razz
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Preds win! Or the Elites may just glass the planet. Then agian, the Preds may relase the aliens on them.

Covenant vs Aliens vs Predators!!!
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about flood infected Xenos and Yautja?

Hmmm... Idea
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elite all the way. He either calls in a shit load of Grunts, or Jackals, or those annoying buzzy wankers.

Or he gets a Wraith.

And that Renegade Elite in Halo 2 has those hologram pods, which might be handy.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

complexnumbers wrote:

You have this humongous alien dude who must weigh 300 pounds, minimum, leaping from treetop to treetop, and the trees aren't shaking or creaking, the limbs aren't sagging or snapping, leaves are not being shaken loose.

The only way that could happen is if gravity were being mitigated in some way. Because trees don't normally act like that when large creatures are cavorting in them.

Right?

Or am I full of shit, as usual?


A japanese ninja has the same body mass as the average here, and can come close to you and cut your neck without a single creak.
It is not the mass, it could be just good skills with some shock absorving materials in his gear.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hypnosys wrote:
A japanese ninja has the same body mass as the average here, and can come close to you and cut your neck without a single creak.
It is not the mass, it could be just good skills with some shock absorving materials in his gear.
Of course I doubt real ninjas actual went tree-jumping.
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