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Raziel



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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Darwin would be appalled at the concept of social Darwinism. The only historical character I know of who supported it was Hitler
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Darkfox



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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sē wrote:
All I am going to say is that I agree with complexnumbers. Evolution explains how life got to where it is today, but doesn't explain the origin, the spark that created it. That's just something that we humans may never understand. I believe in evolution, but I know that I will continue to search to find my own explanation for the spark that created life to get evolution going.


The thing most people don't even think of (and I used to think the same as you, sē) is that the spark that created it actually IS something that people might understand. Well, not "understand" in the meaning of how it was possible to do it, but to "understand" in the meaning to know at least how it came to be. Many people now, actually, pass by the possibility of God, because they think "nah that's something people made up 6000 years ago". But what if it is the other way around and God exists? (and not some old man sitting on a cloud and smoking a pipe - in Bible there is no such image of God - just the one, for a human almost UNIMAGINABLE POWER which created this whole universe) And what more, if it indeed is true, then this almost unimaginable power, which created this whole universe, cared about the people enough to let them know about itself at least in a way that they could understand it, "equipped" them with knowledge they then put in their scriptures, and wanted them to know how to behave according to the original purpose of creating this universe. Means, how to behave if they don't want to waste the world and the existence they were given and to fully experience it in safety and joy. The trouble is, people abandoned God's guidance, then they abandoned even teachings he gave them, then they denied him when he came in human form on this Earth - in the person of Jesus Christ, although he came to sacrifice himself for our trespasses so that he showed us that he forgives every single one of us all these trespasses, the things we have done against the laws he gave us. He came to show us that he cares of us and even more, he promised everyone who accepts him as God and accepts Jesus Christ as Savior (which means, confessing that I have trespassed these laws - everyone has; and accepting him as the Lord) to come back to life after the old world is gone and to have eternal life in a newly created world (Revelation 21).

There is no need to dispute if you need to understand the "seven days of creation" in Bible literally, actually maybe *this* is the thing that we can't understand and he showed it to us in a way that we can understand it. The main thing is to know the things above, and to know that the Bible is true - all of it; some parts maybe literally, maybe not, but God certainly knew what he was doing when he gave us that, so if we trust it we can't get wrong.
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Samy



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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you ever going to stop saying the same thing over and over again? we've all heard of the bible, and i'm pretty sure all of us have a rough concept of what it says, there's absolutely no need to repeat it. we could just keep turning in this nice little circle where you say: "read the bible, see, it says there is a god. and the bible can't be false." and then i say: "the bible was written by humans, there's absolutely no solid proof in this world for gods existence. therefore it all comes down to what you believe."

and by the way, i really do find it insulting when people consequently proclaim their belief the only true one. but i guess asking you to stop will have no effect whatsoever, just as it had no effect when i've said this before.
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Munan
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Samy is absolutely right regarding the talking in circles. There's plenty of forums where this subject can be discussed to your heart's delight, but aLp is not necessarily one of them.

I think the following poem has said it as fine as anyone could say it.

William Herbert Carruth wrote:
A fire-mist and a planet,
A crystal and a cell,
A jelly-fish and a saurian,
And caves where the cave-men dwell;
Then a sense of law and beauty
And a face turned from the clod, --
Some call it Evolution,
And others call it God.

A haze on the far horizon,
The infinite, tender sky,
The ripe, rich tint of the cornfields,
And the wild geese sailing high;
And all over upland and lowland
The charm of the golden-rod, --
Some of us call it Autumn,
And others call it God.

Like tides on a crescent sea-beach,
When the moon is new and thin,
Into our hearts high yearnings
Come welling and surging in:
Come from the mystic ocean,
Whose rim no foot has trod, --
Some of us call it Longing,
And others call it God.

A picket frozen on duty,
A mother starved for her brood,
Socrates drinking the hemlock,
And Jesus on the rood;
And millions who, humble and nameless,
The straight, hard pathway plod, --
Some call it Consecration,
And others call it God.


"This poem is a surprisingly gentle look at the dichotomy between
religious and 'natural' explanations of the universe. Unlike most such poems
I've read, Carruth seems genuinely to be saying that both interpretations
are valid; or, rather, that both sides are appreciating the same underlying
thing, just under different names." (this comment is not mine, but was written for The Wondering Minstrels).
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siliconsara



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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkfox wrote:
God-like stuff


Sorry, no converting nessesary. I am an Agnostic Pagan, and I plan to stay that way.

Oh, wait. Not snarky enough...

OHH CIRCLES! WHEE!

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Simon_Says



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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round right round...
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Complex_Number_States
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samy wrote:
and by the way, i really do find it insulting when people consequently proclaim their belief the only true one. but i guess asking you to stop will have no effect whatsoever, just as it had no effect when i've said this before.



It is insulting when anyone besides me proclaims that their beliefs are the only true beliefs.

I am the only one for whom that is true. And why do I get to say I am the only one for whom that is true?

Because, I believe I will have a beer.

Razz
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Complex_Number_States
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PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Simon_Says wrote:
You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round right round...



Simon_Says says it as truly as it is ever said.

But Simon, please, could you please, please stay out of my head?
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Darkfox



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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, you don't have to read it. Personally, I was posting reply to sē, not to any of you, because originally I thought you've finished with this topic. I was merely responding to someone else.
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siliconsara



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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkfox wrote:
Sorry, you don't have to read it. Personally, I was posting reply to sē, not to any of you, because originally I thought you've finished with this topic. I was merely responding to someone else.


Well, umm. I'd hate to break this to you, but by the second sentence of your reply, I just stopped reading it and went on to everyone else's replies, and by reading them, concluding that all you were trying to do is convert me or at least try to make God appealing.

What they are trying to tell you is that acting like an online jehovah's witness is really not going to get you anywhere here. Especially with all that nice typing you do; no one is going to read it. Hell, even those little tract booklets people give to you when you work as a cashier at a discount store are kinda entertaining and laughable and they STILL don't work. Well, it actually makes me loathe organized religion even more, but meh.
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Munan
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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, when posting on a forum, it may be in reaction to one person, but it's a public post and others can - and most likely will - react and are perfectly entitled to do so.
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Darkfox



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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I know, I just meant that if you don't like it no one forces you to read it. Ok, never mind then.
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Samy



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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkfox wrote:
Yeah I know, I just meant that if you don't like it no one forces you to read it. Ok, never mind then.
think about that for a little while and then think aout what it means for you and my posts Laughing

and hereby i will stay out of this thread until i see something that hits a nerve so strong that i just can't help it but reply Very Happy
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