Alien Loves Predator Forum Index
         
FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    RegisterRegister    ProfileProfile    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Log inLog in 
What is art?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Alien Loves Predator Forum Index -> General B.S.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Munan
Moderator


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 3232
Location: Living on my own

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:11 am    Post subject: What is art? Reply with quote

Okay, this is a subject I love discussing with my students, so I thought I'd try the bright minds of my fellow-aLp people as well.

What is art? How do you define it, what kind of function does it have? What do you expect from an artist?

My simple answer would be that art is whatever is made by an artist, and that an artist is someone who society recognises as such. But of course, there's more to this.

So, I'd be interested to hear your answers. Do you think aLp is art, for instance?

More later.
_________________
The Justified Ancient of Mu Mu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Crotchfire



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 527
Location: You wouldn't believe me if I told you.

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd suggest that art is any form of expression. I hold a very subjectivist view of the world, and it's hard for me to find any form of expression that doesn't fit in the category of art in some sense.

I'd say an artform is any avenue for expression that varies based on the creator's creativity as well as his/her skill.
_________________
The official MILF-masta of the AlP forums.
In addition to my well-documented exploits, my first two initials are MF. Seriously, I'm not making that up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aramor



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 14141
Location: On a cyborg unicorn pony!

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my mommy always said life is a like a box o' chocolates... you never know what ya gonna get! art is something that is nice to look at... my response was always "ah... women..."

But well... besides saying that art is something created by an artist, I can't really say much more about it. But then again, when is it art? Well, if it's made by an artist... but when is someone an artist... if he makes art. So it's pretty weird.
_________________
Photoshopperholic wrote:
Mighty Lord Aramor


Fail of the day:
Syn wrote:
your balls didn't get suck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Pieh



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 03 Jan 2006
Posts: 1647

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is love? Baby don't hurt me...
_________________
:|
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Simon_Says



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 6823
Location: Being generally opposing.

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art: n. Definately not that stuff done in Japanese comic books.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Azrael



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 4810
Location: AWOL no more

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art is a visual expression of thought. Sometimes it doesn't even need to be visual. Art is my favorite subject at school.
_________________
Only the strongest will survive.

Married to SpideyGirl.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Complex_Number_States
banned


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 639
Location: Flyover Country, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mango wrote:
Art is a visual expression of thought.


I agree completely, except for this slight tweakage:

Art is a sensory expression of thought.

Could be, like, Beethoven's 9th. That is some serious art that you can't see.

And my late grandmother could make a cocoanut pie that sent my taste buds to nirvana.

Any of the senses will do.





The problem I have is, Art is also the guy that I have to keep rousting out of my crawlspace. He is such a pain in the ass.
_________________


What if the 4th dimension became lava? You could map our physical location with the coordinates: X, Y, Z, and ARRRRG SO HOT, IT'S SO HOT
- Chloeee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Azrael



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 4810
Location: AWOL no more

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art can be in nearly any form. Visiual, audio, nearly anything. Art is infinite.
_________________
Only the strongest will survive.

Married to SpideyGirl.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Munan
Moderator


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 3232
Location: Living on my own

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crotchfire wrote:
I'd suggest that art is any form of expression. I hold a very subjectivist view of the world, and it's hard for me to find any form of expression that doesn't fit in the category of art in some sense.



If I understand you, there is not essential art-factor that makes something art, it's just whether you accept it as art. But than that willingness to accept might be the essential art-factor. If so, there is another very interesting question:

What triggers that willingness? Surely, some things are significantly more arts than other things, and is that because of an inherent trigger that makes us willing to accept something as art?

If I read your post well, that trigger might be the artist's skill and creativity?
Crotchfire wrote:
I'd say an artform is any avenue for expression that varies based on the creator's creativity as well as his/her skill.


Ancient question: Is creativity something that is genetically decided (PLato) or can it be trained (Aristotle)?

Aramor's mum wrote:
art is something that is nice to look at


Is it really? Must art give us a pleasant experience, must it be beautiful? Or can art be ugly, disturbing? I myself would rather say that art must disturb rather than please.

Oh, by the way, here at my university art can be any artefact: paintings, movies, literature, music, etc.

Looking forward to here some answers!

Simon_Says wrote:
Art: n. Definately not that stuff done in Japanese comic books.


Why not? And what if someone would copy pictures from those comic books in huge paintings and hang them in museums (like Lichtenstein did with American comics from the '60s)?

complexnumbers wrote:
Art is a sensory expression of thought.


Art as an expression of thought suggests that for every object of art there was a well-thought of plan for it. That rules out, for instance, action painting, or the idea that art is the expression of emotion rather than thought.
_________________
The Justified Ancient of Mu Mu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
angelusraptor



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 04 Apr 2005
Posts: 1699
Location: Singapore; with a cup of Premium Evil

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'ld define art as a creative expression.

Simon_Says wrote:
Art: n. Definately not that stuff done in Japanese comic books.


Lol Wink
_________________
Certified Evil Bastard. Serving your cuppa at Starbucks Terminal One Arrival Hall, Singapore. The one who started Premium Evil's tea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Complex_Number_States
banned


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 639
Location: Flyover Country, USA

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Munan wrote:
complexnumbers wrote:
Art is a sensory expression of thought.


Art as an expression of thought suggests that for every object of art there was a well-thought of plan for it. That rules out, for instance, action painting, or the idea that art is the expression of emotion rather than thought.


I hadn't intended to suggest that there was a well-thought plan. Although I see where that interpretation comes from.

How about:

complexnumbers wrote:
Art is a sensory expression of thought or emotion or action or food or something.

Art is a sensory expression.

And sometimes Art the Crawlspace Guy expresses himself by leaving me an excretory expression. Ewww.

_________________


What if the 4th dimension became lava? You could map our physical location with the coordinates: X, Y, Z, and ARRRRG SO HOT, IT'S SO HOT
- Chloeee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aramor



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
Posts: 14141
Location: On a cyborg unicorn pony!

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art is a word. Like love.

Sorry for bringing off-topicness but I just had to say that...

Now get back to discussing art and don't mind me Razz
_________________
Photoshopperholic wrote:
Mighty Lord Aramor


Fail of the day:
Syn wrote:
your balls didn't get suck
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Sal



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 4628
Location: home and such

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe art is craft raised to a somewhat higher level by an exceptional mind of an individual who can indeed be called artist, because of his extraordinary creativity, sensitivity, etc. but there always remains this non-defineable "something" that makes one seem extraordinary.

normally i would agree with the individualistic emotional expression answer. but then again it is too broad, if not in fact meaningless, and practically it allows everything. and i always have problem with accepting someone who comes up on stage, poops and eats it, and then says it is his expression in form of experimental art. you know what i mean, the 'performance' kinda people. that's not art if you ask me.
_________________
i have no time for anal love
Simon_Says wrote:
Sal, you're my favourite member again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Munan
Moderator


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 3232
Location: Living on my own

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salvatore wrote:
maybe art is craft raised to a somewhat higher level by an exceptional mind of an individual who can indeed be called artist, because of his extraordinary creativity, sensitivity, etc. but there always remains this non-defineable "something" that makes one seem extraordinary.


That something, is it divine inspiration or hard training?

Quote:
normally i would agree with the individualistic emotional expression answer. but then again it is too broad, if not in fact meaningless, and practically it allows everything. and i always have problem with accepting someone who comes up on stage, poops and eats it, and then says it is his expression in form of experimental art. you know what i mean, the 'performance' kinda people. that's not art if you ask me.


There's another question here. Cathedrals, temples, enormous buddha statues could all be called art, but they are hardly individual expression, rather the expression of an era or a people, right?

Interestingly, no one wants (or dares) to answer the question whether aLp is art...
_________________
The Justified Ancient of Mu Mu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
siliconsara



Gender: Gender:Female
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 614
Location: Western NY

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Munan wrote:

Ancient question: Is creativity something that is genetically decided (PLato) or can it be trained (Aristotle)?


That depends on your definition of creativity.

If you mean like drawing, playing a musical instrument or something of the like then trained, definitely. Some people find the way to unlock the ability to do something (drawing, for instance) in a natural way, and some people need a little push in the right direction to get that "a-HA!" response, the eureka, to unlock the ability so they can express their creativity.

Creativity is the drive and source of artwork; the actual process to show this creativity can be trained; the end result can be anything from a child's scribble to a 20-hour painting. It's that spark of idea, that creative spark, that starts the process of self-expression. Getting to the final result can either be trained or from someone who learned on their own.

Anyone can be creative in certain subjects. I have a neighbor that can make usable furniture out of anything. While me and everyone else bought those foldable small carts for 40 dollars at the store, she went and got an old rubbermaid bin, some wheels off a broken chair and some rope and made her own cart that's bigger and better than what I bought at the store. That's creativity, isn't it?

I had a similar discussion on the The Hunted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Complex_Number_States
banned


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 639
Location: Flyover Country, USA

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Munan wrote:
Interestingly, no one wants (or dares) to answer the question whether aLp is art...


I want to! I want to!!

aLp is moist definitely art!

It's not Art. Art hasn't been in the crawlspace all week anyway.

But aLp is art. Just the idea of it constitutes art to me. There is creativity and originality, and ex-president acid ejaculation!

Come on, ex-president acid ejaculation!! If that isn't art, there isn't any art.

And Art agrees!
_________________


What if the 4th dimension became lava? You could map our physical location with the coordinates: X, Y, Z, and ARRRRG SO HOT, IT'S SO HOT
- Chloeee
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bernieh
Site Admin


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 947

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"What is Art?" is too broad of a question, because Art is too vague of a term. I think it's a pretty defensible answer to say that anything is art. Activities that are usually thought of as unartistic - say, accounting - can involve a sense of "artistry" - at least an accountant might say so. As a computer programmer, I can definitely say that programming is an art.

So a more focused interpretation of the question can be inferred from Munan's discussion question, "Do you think aLp is art"... which is "What makes a piece of intended artwork art?" By that I mean artwork that is created to be "art", e.g. a comic strip, a piece of music, a choreographed dance. (I just want to distinguish that from, for example, accounting - although I said an accountant may bring "artistry" to his job, he doesn't expect his work to be regarded as art.)

So, I do have a pretty direct opinion to what makes something "art", and that's if there are a considerable amount of people who appreciate it. "Considerable" is an abstract amount here - I'm not going to specify a number - nor am I saying that 50 Cent is better art than your favorite local band just because he has more fans. In that example I'm just saying they're both art.

To illustrate, I recall a time I went to a museum and a saw a canvas hanging on the wall that was completely painted black. That was it. I took a closer look to see if there was something subtle going on with the brush strokes or something, but no, it was just as if a guy took a house painter's straight roller to it. I don't give a crap what the dude was thinking, it was pointless. And I don't think anybody would like it either, except for the idiot curator who chose to exhibit the piece. Therefore, it's not art.

BUT, if I found out that there were indeed thousands of people who thought it was the most brilliant thing ever... I'd concede that yeah, it's art. Shitty art, but it's art. I'm a believer in popular opinion: if people like something, then it's got some worth, even if I personally don't like it, and even if I think those people are idiots for liking it.

So yeah, aLp is art, because people appreciate it as such.

Yet another level of Munan's question is "Do you think aLp is art on the same level as the Mona Lisa?" As in, how do you compare qualities of art? That's a much tougher question to answer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Corporal Waffle



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1084
Location: Waffle bells. Waffle bells. Waffles all the way...

PostPosted: Sun May 21, 2006 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&lr=&defl=en&q=define:art&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title


lookie lookie!!

nice way to see, yes!

art is what!
_________________

munan wrote:
Vevlaa, for fuck's sake, edit your damn post!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Munan
Moderator


Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 30 May 2005
Posts: 3232
Location: Living on my own

PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sē wrote:
[Anyone can be creative in certain subjects. I have a neighbor that can make usable furniture out of anything. While me and everyone else bought those foldable small carts for 40 dollars at the store, she went and got an old rubbermaid bin, some wheels off a broken chair and some rope and made her own cart that's bigger and better than what I bought at the store. That's creativity, isn't it?


Yes, but I would say: not art. Somehow, I have the feeling art should be - somehow - useless, or presented in a context in which it is useless. So, for instance, design is not art in its original context (chairs, computers etc.) but it is when being presented in a museum, where we are expected to enjoy the form, not what one can do with it (<-- this reasoning is very close to what Kant said when he said art was efficiently inefficient)
I remember I was working at the postal service once, a really boring where we had to sort parcels and this colleague of mine was bored because the computer broke down or something and we had to wait. He'd taken these stickers we used to colour-code the parcels and arranged them as a flower and I was thinking, how wonderful, here is this guy doing this mindnumbing work for maybe his entire lifetime and still there is something of an artistic drive in him: creating something just for the form, with absolutely no purpose at all...

complexnumbers wrote:
aLp is moist definitely art!

It's not Art.

Are you suggesting a difference between something like a high art and a low art? As in Bernie saying

Bernieh wrote:
"Do you think aLp is art on the same level as the Mona Lisa?" As in, how do you compare qualities of art? That's a much tougher question to answer.


You seem to draw a line there, complexnumbers, but how do you do that? I'd find that interesting. A lot of people have claimed that with the rise of postmodernism, this line has blurred or even disappeared.

Bernieh wrote:
As a computer programmer, I can definitely say that programming is an art.

Yeah, I remember when I was a consultant I considered talking some sense into my boss as an artform - it needed a lot of artistry.
Again, I would say art wants to be enjoyed as art (viz. for its form) whereas consults and computer programs have to have value as consults and computerprograms first and foremost.

Bernieh wrote:
So, I do have a pretty direct opinion to what makes something "art", and that's if there are a considerable amount of people
who appreciate it.


So, you don't believe in an elite of art-connaisseurs to do that job? I sometimes do agree with you. At other moments, when I see that this kind of reasoning leads to the disappearance of 'difficult' artforms, I actually take the elitist approach. If only because I'm involved, as a teacher, in creating these connaisseurs.
_________________
The Justified Ancient of Mu Mu:
Sun! Sex! Sin! Divine intervention! Death! And destruction!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Smiley



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 725
Location: Inside the Beltway

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the definition of art is completely subjective.

A mother will look at some formless scribbles her toddler produced with jumbo crayons and see art. I'd see something that looked like the cat puked.

A guy might walk into a coffee shop and see a large stain on somoeone's shirt that to him looks like a priceless piece of expressionism, and I'd just see a bitch of a cleaning bill.

A movie critic may walk out of a screening of a new movie thinking that he wasted two hours of his life, and I might walk out thinking I actually felt justified in spending ten dollars to see the film, because in me it elicited an emotional response, had characters that were presented in a way that allowed me to identify with them and their fictional reality, and that flew really awesome spaceships across a landscape that was total eye candy for someone of my tastes.

It's all about personal taste when it comes to art. I can't imagine a museum or private collector wasting wallspace on anything that Jackson Pollack ever created, because to me it looks like random sprinkles, sprays and drizzles. There's no emotional response, except "gee, that's a horrible waste of good paint and canvas" when I look at it.

The recent superpopularity of anime/manga as an artform is troubling to me personally. As a lifelong comic book reader, I feel that an entire generation and a half of people are growing up with the idea that drawing elvish characters with huge eyes makes them "artists". Well, it doesn't. It makes you a bad artist. BAD ARTIST! NO DESSERT!

Again, it's personal taste. I never found myself enthralled or touched emotionally by pieces of work that were deliberately made to look like . . . nothing. Or something, but something that represents the creator's psychotic impulses that bubble just below the surface. Random streaks of india ink, cut up magazine photos of Cameron Diaz, human blood, barbed wire and pencil shavings, for example. That stuff doesn't do it for me. It's a goldmine for a therapist...

Some creations that are considered art by some are sometimes just poor representations of reality that are so abstract that most people can't identity with the creation, and thus the artistry is lost. Like a sculpture that is so abstract that it appears like a six year old went crazy with some modeling clay, but the artist meant for us to see a voluptuous woman cradling an infant. The artist's motivation notwithstanding, it's a waste of materials and space to me. To someone else it might be a masterpiece.

I recently saw a movie about Jean Michel Basquiat. He was a young artist in New York in the 1980s who some say personified the 80's art scene in America. Some say he was a fraud. At any rate, what struck me the most was not his creations, but the reactions that so-called art aficionados had to his work. His stuff to me looked like a mess. Solid colors with lines on top of them that made no sense or tried to convey real objects in ways that made no sense. People with a lot of money paid him a lot for these giant paintings that any drooling baby could have done with a dirty diaper and a toothbrush. I honestly saw no artistic merit in anything he did. I can't see the worth of a creation that only means something to daft, noveau riche wankers.

Maybe if you're on enough drugs it will make sense to you, but for folks like me who are graphically stimulated, formless blobs of clay, abstractions of reality that have no basis in what I think or feel, poems that make no sense and "music" made with discarded buckets, silverware and rubber bands that has no melody, among other things, will never be "art" in my mind.
_________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
-Gallileo Galilei
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Azrael



Gender: Gender:Male
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 4810
Location: AWOL no more

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art takes perspective.
_________________
Only the strongest will survive.

Married to SpideyGirl.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Alien Loves Predator Forum Index -> General B.S. All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group