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Pete Rose and The Hall

 
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Yogi




Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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Location: new york, ny

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 7:59 am    Post subject: Pete Rose and The Hall Reply with quote

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=ratto_ray&id=1936080

Speaking of The Hall, interesting story on espn.com, on how everyone is finally tired of Rose's shtick and how finally, he is "done". I hadn't thought about him in a while, but this article reminds me of how they were making a big deal of it just a year ago. They're right, I don't seem to care any more. His stats haven't changed of course, and he did what they told him to do, which was to come clean, but the way he did it, obviously just a ploy to get into The Hall, totally turned everyone off. I used to be a supporter of his, in fact, since his stats haven't changed, I still believe he belongs in The Hall, but by now, if he never gets in, you won't catch me losing sleep over it....

Does anyone think he'll make it? Or not?
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Dean



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
His stats haven't changed of course, and he did what they told him to do, which was to come clean, but the way he did it, obviously just a ploy to get into The Hall, totally turned everyone off.

I think that this is absolutely right. People wanted him to show contrition, but when they said that, they meant not just admitting he bet on games, but really changing his life. He chose not to do that, and instead tried to cash in on the contrition with his book, just like he has tried to cash in on his notoriety for years with his various cheesy merchandise sales. He has never made the least bit of effort, IMO, to "clean up his act" -- still hangs out with gamblers/at racetracks, never went to Gamblers Anonymous or anything as far as I know, etc.

I guess I am surprised things have turned out that way, since his cause was very popular for a long time. But I think baseball did the right thing by standing firm and refusing to let him back in until he really changed. It was an unpopular decision at the time, but now everyone can see what kind of person he is and why they had to handle it this way, and it is popular now.
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bernieh
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I agree. I hate the guy too, but the stats belong in the Hall. And of course there's lots of worse guys in there already. You don't have to say anything nice about the dude. They should just make sure they write "NOT FOR RESALE" on anything they give him though.
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cfos



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I agree with most of what everyone has posted -- nice pic of Donny Baseball, too.

I think the stats belong in the Hall, regardless of his personality. Similar to what Bernie said-- is Canton going to kick out OJ for "if he did it"?

As for him being in the Hall... well, he already is a regular at the Forum (Casesar's in Vegas). Yeah, I paid $100 for a ball with his signature. Although, now I hear he is autographing balls saying "I'm sorry" or "i'm sorry I cheated on baseball"... something like that.

While we are on the topic, I think Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall. How can you lump him with the rest when you look at his playoff stats?
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bernieh
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cfos wrote:
While we are on the topic, I think Shoeless Joe should be in the Hall. How can you lump him with the rest when you look at his playoff stats?

That was what I thought too, 'til my buddy Dean filled me in on some more info. Here's what Shoeless Joe's Wikipedia page says:
Quote:
Jackson always publicly maintained his innocence and insisted until his death that he was playing his best in the Series. He had a .375 batting average, threw out five baserunners, and handled thirty chances in the outfield with no errors during that series. However, he batted far worse in the five games that the White Sox lost, totalling only one RBI, from a home run in game 8 once the game was 5-0 for the Reds. The Cincinnati Reds also hit an unusually high number of triples to left field during the series, far exceeding the amount that Jackson—generally considered a strong defensive player—normally allowed.[1] Arguably, this could be seen as Jackson attempting the fix the games through inaction, although another possible explanation could be simple game to game ups and downs in performance, typical of even the most elite baseball players.

So, "playing well when it didn't matter" and "inaction" could be argued, but all it really means is that there's no proof he WASN'T in on it.
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cfos



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... those are intersting points. I guess, I have been looking at overall stats versus stats during games won/lost... Also, we don't have the footage to view the games over so maybe he doesn't belong... I dunno.

However, people do have bad games and they do have slumps. I'd be curious to know what the pitcher/batter match-ups were, etc. before making a decision on shoeless... Being a die-hard Yankee fan I seriously doubt that they were trying to throw the most recent playoff series which leads me to believe that people can have a few bad games and still be good players. While I'm on the Yankee band wagon -- PUT GOOSE IN THE HALL!!!!
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