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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: PROMETHEUS Reply with quote

So? Anyone else seen this yet?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This week I'd say. I've been put off by fairly mediocre reviews from friends. Although I'll happily watch Idris Elba in most things.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aurelyn wrote:
This week I'd say. I've been put off by fairly mediocre reviews from friends. Although I'll happily watch Idris Elba in most things.


I'm guessing your friends went into it expecting something. The trick is to not expect anything, and just enjoy it as a sci-fi movie in its own right.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the advice I got from one of my friends as well. Anyway, gonna see it somewhere after the 24th of this month. Gotta wait for my money first.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mediocre? Everyone I know (pre-Alien fan or not) is praising it, or at least saying it's a good watch. I thought it was fantastic.

Spoiler:
Though the ending may divide the fan base. I personally loved the inclusion of the first Xeno (possibly the first Queen), though a lot of people might use that as something to complain about... like people always do.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloo wrote:
Mediocre? Everyone I know (pre-Alien fan or not) is praising it, or at least saying it's a good watch. I thought it was fantastic.

Spoiler:
Though the ending may divide the fan base. I personally loved the inclusion of the first Xeno (possibly the first Queen), though a lot of people might use that as something to complain about... like people always do.


Yup. Met a guy last week who was talking shit about the movie. Turned out he had a preexisting bias against the co-writer because of his work on Lost. Said he hated stories that left too many doors open. I realized then that he was a fucking idiot. They always dislike having their brains challenged.

He wanted the movie wrapped up in a nice neat package. I told him that's not the kind of movie it was supposed to be. He just kept on about how the Lost screenwriter ruined this movie for him. I gave up talking with him after that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally saw it last Friday and I think it was good. I don't know if I have anything sensible to say about the movie itself (or I'll just keep my speculations as my own..), but I agree that people who have too high expectations on the movie will disappoint. About the first thing I heard when I came out of the theater was someone mumbling about "repeating the same old shit"... Funny how some people want it to be like the first two Aliens but at the same time it should be somehing really new. One should just ignore all the hype around movies like this. I think the movies we want to see should be supported or soon they won't be made anymore. Although if it really sucks there's no reason to praise it..

But, I still liked it and waiting for more to see.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. I just seen Prometheus with my friend and we were discussing it in the car. I had some time to mull things over and the first place I wanted to come to talk about it was here. So here is what I came up with. Mind you I also have a lot of questions as well.

I understand this is the prequel to the Alien movies. The year this movie took place in was 2089. I however do not believe that this is how the first Xeno came to be. If you remember in the film there was a huge mural of a Queen Alien where that scientist was looking at. I think that this Xeno was possibly a new and evolved version of the Alien that will eventually become the Xeno we know to this day. Who knows. Maybe because it was born from that Engineer that's how the creature itself became so resilient. Or it could have been the first King Alien to have been born or it could have both male and female reproductive parts.

But! This is where there is some conflict. Where does the Yautja come into play here? My friend believes that the Engineers could have been the first Yautja but I doubt it. Maybe the Engineers created the Predator race for the same reason they created the Xeno race. Or maybe the Yautja was created in the same way we were except they received all of the strength and size and tech while we were given other means to survive.

And in Aliens vs Predator, if the Kainde Amedha was used for the trials on Earth for many years (predating even before the 1400's which was around time Aztecs had their empire)...how does that match up with what I just saw?

Now that that's out of the way...I need to talk about David. What exactly was his motives? It was weird. One moment it was clear what he was doing and then the next...nothing. Was he testing the archaeologist lady? Because he treated her as though she knew all the answers...she just had to figure it out herself. But then he poisons the lady's boyfriend/partner with that black ooze, knows that she had sex with the guy and she gets pregnant with the first facehugger, he tells her that what child wouldn't want their parents to be dead...Its very inconsistent. Michael Fassbender is a great actor but his role as David left me confused and wanting to know more about him.

So in the end who was the creators of the first Xenomorph? A series of unfortunate events with a robot that clearly off its rocker. Or was this clearly a calculated move? The way I looked at it...who's fault was it? The main female who left the thing alive in the medical room only to have it attack the Engineer who was trying to kill her? Was it David? Who took the canister (when he wasn't supposed to) and fed that droplet to the scientist who not only drank all of the drink that was handed to him but then went on to sleep with the main chick? Did he do this on his own or was he ordered by Weyland to do it?

Also...DIDN'T WEYLAND DIE IN THE FIRST AVP!? Unless this is his son...I need some explanations!

That's it for now! Can someone please help me understand?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the big question is is whether we consider the AvP movies as canon...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is why I'm so conflicted. Don't the Engineers have presence in the Predator series? I mean...look at their tech and then look at the tech of the Engineers. Looks pretty dang similar.

If I was to say that AVP was not canon then Prometheus would make a lot more sense but if we were to say it was canon...then I don't know.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AVP is not canon. In the words of Tim Bisley, it is a jumped-up toy advert.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

B-But Aurelyn! It is canon! In my heart!

Do you really want to hurt me? Do you really want to make me cry?
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Anyway...

I have no issues with kicking AvP out of canon if it makes Prometheus more awesome...
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so look at it this way: the Alien movies are canon in the AVP universe, but the AVP movies are in no way related to the Alien universe. Think of the AVP movies as overly glorified fan fictions.

Because of the way the black liquid essentially broke down and reworked the life form it "infected," I'm not exactly sure even Aliens can be considered canon anymore for a number of reasons. One, Ridley Scott himself has stated that he doesn't like the idea of the Queen. Two, a lone drone can turn hosts into eggs, and that, along with the black liquid, nullifies the need for a Queen at all.

But I'm a hug fuckin' fanboy and I refuse to believe there is no Queen, so I just think that Spoiler:
the Xeno shown at the end of Prometheus was the first Queen or Queen Mother or whatever you'd like.

Alternate Spideygal wrote:
Its very inconsistent. Michael Fassbender is a great actor but his role as David left me confused and wanting to know more about him.

I like to think that's why he did such a good job playing the android.
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Yup. Met a guy last week who was talking shit about the movie. Turned out he had a preexisting bias against the co-writer because of his work on Lost. Said he hated stories that left too many doors open. I realized then that he was a fucking idiot. They always dislike having their brains challenged.

He wanted the movie wrapped up in a nice neat package. I told him that's not the kind of movie it was supposed to be. He just kept on about how the Lost screenwriter ruined this movie for him. I gave up talking with him after that.

Jesus, lunch with that guy sounds like a real treat.

I do the same whenever I come across people like him. Next he'll be asking you about religion and politics and whether or not you call it soccer or football.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw it and wasn't impressed; it was alright, but left me a bit annoyed.

David-- Spoiler:
Why is he so... human? I can see them making him a bit crazy to make you think that he's foreshadowing to Ash and I get that he's getting direction from Weyland. But he really just seems to have a grudge against Holloway.


Shaw--Spoiler:
STOP WITH THE "I HAVE TO KNOW THE ANSWER" EVERY 5 MINUTES. Dear God. If you're trying to put a philosophical twist/thought in a movie, you don't have to say it repeatedly. And how is she running miles and miles around an alien spaceship/planet after major abdominal surgery? The whole medipod is another irk--if they have the technology for that sort of thing, then surely they would have the technology to make it unisex.


Vickers--Spoiler:
I don't understand why she was even in the movie, except that she seemed to be there out of spite. She added nothing to the plot or its development.


Janek--Spoiler:
I would like to have known more about this character.


Science/continuity--Spoiler:
I thought that the science was just bad. I don't understand how Shaw can get a carbon reader in the Engineer corpse but in the hologram recordings, you can tell that things are deflecting off the armor they're wearing. Why is it being assumed that the corpse is carbon-based? Why is she destroying her only samples? Why is Fifield a zombie--yes, the black goo, but why is he the only zombie? How did the extracted squid-monster become so big so quickly without any visible means of nourishment? How are the Engineers able to take in two different sets of atmosphere--spaceship and planet? Since they are genetically humans, wouldn't they have the same, or extremely similar, organ function and needs?


Bah.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everything Ipsa just said. Especially where it concerns David. I mean come on now...HE WAS BLEACHING HIS DAMN ROOTS. Androids shouldn't have to do that. They're androids! What's next? Android beauty salons? Maybe he does it to seem more human which was probably what Weyland wanted. Maybe he wanted a son and probably couldn't have another so he had David built.

But what I don't get is Spoiler:
the whole thing with David wanting Weyland to die. His whole thing about "Doesn't every child want to see their parents die?" Did David know the outcome of what was going to happen once he woke that engineer up? Was he working on his own? He couldn't have been working for his "sister" or his "mum" because when he was in the ship's control room, he turned off the camera and shut her out. Just confused about which side he was really on.


And to answer the question to Ipsa about Fifield...Spoiler:
He was the only zombie because he was the only one who ingested the black stuff. Now the first engineer who drank all of it died, broke apart completely. I think it was because it was deconstructing his body to build it up into something new, but since he fell in the rapids/drank a whole cup of the stuff, it ended up killing him. Fifield only had a drop of this stuff. Yes he was burnt to death, but it did its job of deconstructing and then rebuilding his cells and brought him back. He was lucky enough that his body was still intact. Think of it as an alien version of the G-virus. But instead of turning into this huge hulking monster, he got turned into crazy animalistic zombie Wesker with super strength, speed, endurance, and agility. And in fact if that droplet didn't kill us or turn us into crazy zombie Weskers, would it bring about a new age in human evolution? Where we are stronger, faster, and better than before? Is it selective? That's why it killed the Engineer and brought back Fifield? Was the Engineers trying to kill us or bring about a new race of humans to be more like them? The strong surviving and the weak to be preyed on/dying from exposure to the alien G-virus?


There a looooooot of questions. I'm sorry if I answered your question with a question Ipsa. I hope I explained it enough before I got all "The meaning of life, by Spidey."

Now the thing with Shaw...Spoiler:
Yeah she's running her ass off, but she was still grabbing onto her abdomen. Remember, she's been injecting herself and taking all kinds of pain medication to help ease the pain. And when she got to running away from the engineer and the ship that's all adrenaline. She wasn't feeling anything at that point. I remember when I got hit with a car and I didn't feel any pain after the initial impact until I halfway to the hospital. It was the adrenaline and shock that kept me from realizing that my whole left side was basically a massive bruise. I'm sure when she got onto that other ship and flew away, she was back to hurting again. Unless she brought some food, water, and other things she would need to dress and take care of her wound, she'll probably die of either an infection or she'll just starve to death. Unless she lands on a planet with intelligent life that could help her. Like a Yautja planet. ;3


And I think that's it. I have nothing to say about Vickers other that...its a coincidence that she shares a name with a character from Resident Evil.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloo wrote:

I'm not exactly sure even Aliens can be considered canon anymore for a number of reasons.


Except that it is canon. Because it came first. That's right up there with Lucas retro-fitting the Jedi with midichlorians.

@Spidey. I'm sorry, but it's true.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pardon me while I sob into my Aliens vs Predator novels and fanfiction.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Aurelyn: I know, I know, I just like the discussion... Which hasn't happened a lot over the past year.
@Ipsa: Because the future.
@Spidey: I don't actually think they were trying to do anything with us except destroy us. Here's one of the better Jockey theories I've seen on the web:
Quote:
Guy Pearce (Peter Weyland) "We are now three months into the year of our Lord, 2023. At this moment of our civilization, we can create cybernetic individuals, who in just a few short years will be completely indistinguishable from us. Which leads to an obvious conclusion: WE are the gods now."

During the viral campaign it seemed clear cut to me that humanity would face a backlash for venturing into a privileged and sacred act of creating. I was certain this was one of the primary themes of the film given the title.

I searched the context of the film for the 'Prometheus moment', the metaphor for punishment via overstepping the mark so to speak. Unable to find this playing out, I assumed it had to pertain to humanity.

I'm now speculating that the Space Jockeys/Engineers are the Prometheus metaphor, their meddling's with creation self-destructive not once, but twice. Adding weight to Shaws statement after Holloway questions her dedication to God "but who created them". The Engineers are not Gods, they are 'Prometheus'. The act of creation is not special Holloway: "anyone can do it". But not anyone can escape the repercussions of the act.


I've read other forms of speculation on this subject which I believe to be wrong for various reasons.

1. One is the sort of 2001 <(Kubrick masterpiece) monolith moment when Humanity reaches a particular milestone, reaching the moon, reaching a planet in a distant galaxy, (Creation/theft of sacred Fire) a reaction is triggered and in the case of Prometheus, the human race which has become too advanced is destroyed.

2. Others that state that humanities experiments with the creation of life bio and synthetic (David) is an insult to out creators (my original thought).

The trouble with the two examples above is, remember, the derelict warship that was scheduled to destroy earth was scheduled to make that trip thousands of years ago. The ship was enclosed in rock and terrain which had smothered it over a long period of time. None of the above had even occurred when it was decided we would be eradicated.

This leads me on the question 1 and 2

1: What are your additional thoughts on the 'Prometheus' metaphor in the film? Did I miss its existence? What is the relevance of the title?

and

2: What possible reason could the engineers have for wanting to wipe us out?

I loved the conversation between David and Holloway touching on the relationships of a being towards its creator and a being towards its creation. "We made you because We could". Maybe the hard, cold irony of the situation is that they may have uncovered the truth there and then. As David would be scrapped in favor of the newer Hyperdyne systems like Ash, and then Ash would be mocked by Bishop as "a bit twitchy", Humanity simply scraps creations in favor of newer models. A few thousand years ago, when humanity was progressing too slowly, we were scheduled to be wiped out in favor of something else. Humanity the science experiment that got to live on because the engineers who were set to wipe them out had a harsh run in with the repercussions of creating life. We know Jockeys like to refine. (Squid to Face-huger)

And some responses:
Quote:
Perhaps humans were originally supposed to be the engineered bioweapons, but we turned out too independent and uncontrollable. When they realized that, they began experimenting to develop the next weapon to destroy us, and found something even more uncontrollable than us. Perhaps they saw our potential to rival them as creators.

Quote:
I agree, the Prometheus myth ties into the acts of the engineers. Not the humans themselves. I believe at some point or another the Engineers relaised they'd made a mistake in our creation and sought to rectify this via mass extermination.

Quote:
Maybe we didn't do anything at all. Like you said, we like to replace old models with better ones. David didn't try waging war on everyone, did he? Or, more specifically, his model of robot in general, they didn't pull an I, Robot... his model just got replaced over time because the next one was better and eventually we got to Bishop.

Likewise, we didn't move onto DVDs from VHS tapes because the tapes somehow gave us HIV, right? They didn't do anything wrong, they just weren't advanced enough. Think of us as VHS tapes.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate Spideygal wrote:

And to answer the question to Ipsa about Fifield (stuff)
Now the thing with Shaw...(stuff)


I know... That whole scene with Fifield is just extremely unsatisfying and I know that that's the explanation, but something about that scene really bugs me. With Shaw, Spoiler:
I was thinking of not just the pain, but with all of that running and jumping shouldn't that be completely destroying the stapling that was done and shouldn't she be bleeding out and dead/dying? Maybe I'm missing something there.


This made me laugh more than I probably should have.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Ipsa. I had to share that with all of my friends because it made me lol so hard. Very Happy

And about Shaw...Spoiler:
Maybe it was special space staples that kept the skin together. I don't know. YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND LOGIC IN A SCI-FI MOVIE ABOUT ALIENS AND THROAT/CHEST/BODY BURSTER THINGIES. Maybe its time to check your brain at the door and just enjoy it for what it was. You're thinking too much about it!


And @Bloo. Thanks! I think I will just separate this story from the Alien storyline and just enjoy it for what it is. A great Sci-fi movie. WE HAVEN'T HAD A MOVIE LIKE THIS IN FOREVER!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alternate Spideygal wrote:
YOU'RE TRYING TO FIND LOGIC IN A SCI-FI MOVIE ABOUT ALIENS AND THROAT/CHEST/BODY BURSTER THINGIES. Maybe its time to check your brain at the door and just enjoy it for what it was. You're thinking too much about it!


What's wrong with wanting some logic in a science fiction movie? The good ones all have an internal logic. When characters act in a way contrary to what would be an expected/natural response, it's difficult to have suspension of disbelief and enjoy the movie. I really tried to like the movie but I can't when the problems they encounter or the resolutions don't make sense/don't really follow with what's happened. They did not tell the story well and it looked really good while doing it...!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen this movie yet, but this made me chuckle:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy

And, on topic, essentially Prometheus was complete pants. Another exemplar of how narrative and consistency aren't important anymore, the audience is assumed to be a twelve year old with ADD and explosions and special effects are everything.

Meh.
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